Safe Speed Forums

Yes, and in 99% of occassions I do, and I'm sure Sixy does too. In this instance, the other driver transpired to be driving well in excess of what most people consider safe and was misjudged. It's going to happen.

Sixy made a judgement, and it turned out it wasn't right. She didn't intend to hold anyone up I'm sure, and certainly wasn't banking on the headlights behind her going nearly twice as fast, given that she was nipping on herself.

Yes, she made a bit of a cock up with her judgement, but ultimately the other driver was well outside his abilities if he was unable to anticipate a car ahead moving into L3 to pass 2 lorries.

I just think you jumped down Sixy's throat too fast and made too many judgements based upon little information.

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Right. Enough. An no point did I say I was SURPRISED by this guy, in fact I was quite careful in my original post to avoide giving that impression. He didn't 'come out of nowhere', he didn't 'surprise' me, he just got FAR too close. That's all I was saying.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

yes he did. He also either surprised you or you knowingly pulled in front of him, which is it?

Oh no he didn't...

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

oops, sorry. I meant, yes he did get far too close. As for the rest of it... I guess you've answered that.

johnsher, tell me, do you drive a vectra?

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

no, nor do I drive at over 100 on public roads. Where appropriate my crusing speed is around 80 so I get passed by plenty of people in my travels.

I've examined this exchange. At no point has Sixy suggested that she pulled in front of Vectraman.

I don't think it is reasonable to assume that she did on the information presented. It is entirely possible - indeed commonplace - to overtake for some time in L3 and to eventually be caught up by someone who was not in sight at the time when you moved to L3.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Johnsher,

Sixy-the-red may or may not have made a poor judgement in this case.
Regardless, the guy in the Vectra shouldn't have tailgated her, particularly in such an aggressive manner.
The section of the M6 that sixy refers to has a number of sweeping bends, complete with their own crests and dips. At night a car travelling in excess of 130mph would not be easy to judge the speed of, while still being visible from some considerable distance away. I've been in the position of catching up with someone a little quicker than either vehicle expected, entailing some 'enthusiastic' braking on my part without it being a full emergency brake. No need to get QUITE so close to the car in front, nor any need to stay at that distance. I should have judged the close distance better than I did and should have braked earlier. Same for the Vectra driver

from another thread...

Of course. But if we are caught up with by an aggressive driver then we should take advanced / defensive action as soon as we are aware of the situation.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I'm not going to read back through all these posts, but I think Sixy said she was halfway past the HGV when the Vectra caught up, and was doing 85 KPH (not MPH surely? )
If Vectra man was doing over the ton to such an extent, then he was well back when Sixy started the manouvre, and as has been pointed out, on that section of the M6, not easily judged for speed or distance.

Because Sixy is HALFWAY past the HGV, she cannot win. Slow and drop back would merely agravate the situation - YET she is already being tailgated, so continuing past without speeding up extensively fails to appease Vectra man, who not only CONTINUES to tailgate, but compounds his folly, by cutting in on somebody travelling at 85!!


The following applies equally to the Vectra man:


I can only assume from reading these exchanges, that Jonsher has recently had a really bad experience with somebody pulling out on him, and is therefore in attack mode regarding anyone who seems to have done the same.

Sixy would appear to have nothing to be embarrassed about from this incident... except for misreading the KPH on the speedo

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

heaven forbid that I might just want to improve driving standards. The reason I get a bit touchy about it is that I'm continually hearing "and I pulled into L3 and this idiot drove right up my arse" comments from people who don't stop to think that they themselves have caused the problem, not helped, of course, by the idiot in front of them who could have pulled back into L1. Then when you mention that they could have waited they go off on one saying that there's no way in the world that they could possibly anticipate that someone less than 100m behind them could catch them in a few seconds. Now show me a motorway where you can't see 100m behind and I'll show you somewhere you shouldn't be driving at 85mph.

Johnsher - I've just read this whole thread in one go.

Correct me if I'm wrong, your position seems to be that you should not pull in to L3 if there is another faster car between you and the horizon behind you.

no, my position, and that of the highway code, is that you shouldn't pull into L2 or L3 if you're going to hold up someone already in that lane.

They dont all look like this!

Here (and lots of other places) when it's like this:




You would be hard put to pick out somebody coming up fast BEHIND YOU, when you are checking the road ahead too.
You would rely on check, indicate, check and pull out, not watch the lights behind for several seconds just in case a few seconds later when you are HALFWAY past an HGV, some complete plonker arrives on your tail, having made NO attempt to ease up, and maintain a safe distance!!
The Highway Code applies to ALL parties on the road!! It would appear to me (and most other reasonable people) that Sixy did her bit to proceed in a safe manner, but was thwarted by some nonconforming ignoramus in a Vectra!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

If you really can't see what's less than 100m behind you on roads like that when it's not busy then I give up! I never thought I had super powers of observation but obviously I was very, very wrong.

Sorry, but you seem to have dreamed up the scenario that Sixy pulled out on a driver who was close enough to be obvious, while glancing in the rear view mirror, AT night; and you claim that at 100 yards back, he would be too close to make the overtake "safe", and that it would be possible to estimate that his excessive speed would put him in conflict with the manouvre?


What you are doing is forming an opinion that Sixy made a dodgy manouvre, which CAUSED her to be tailgated.

If it went to a court, what do you think the judge would make of the case you are making by quoting the Highway Code?

(a) Judge: "Sixy, by ignoring the Highway Code you quite clearly placed yourself in a position, which forced this unfortunate Vectra Driver to tailgate you at high speed, AND cut in on you after completing HIS overtaking manouvre!"

(b) Judge: "Vectra man, you failed to observe a vehicle in front of you catching up an HGV, thereby failing to anticipate that the said vehicle would be likely to wish to overtake said HGV. Further, you failed to reduce your already excessive speed, and in contravention of the Highway Code, drove so close to the vehicle in front, that your lights could not be seen, at speeds in excess of the posted limit, and having finally passed Sixys vehicle, cut in on her vehicle, placing you both in danger!!"

I have yet to see the BiB view on this, but I think I know which version is the more likely!!
This view is in twilight.....

- I dont think at night, you can guage the speed of pinpricks of light in your rear view mirror, and decide it might be dangerous to pull out unless you devoted more time to watching your rear than was safe at 70+ mph..

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

I haven't dreamed it up at all, those were the facts presented.


yes, for any competent driver it should be.


right, so because one person wants to drive like an idiot, we should therefore all drive like idiots. Absolutely incredible... and I thought this site was about improving driving standards. Given that many here want to increase or remove motorway limits, I'm now very afraid.

Could someone with experience of driving on the autobahns please tell me how they manage to cope with cars going faster than 130mph?



and you can clearly see cars all the way back around the corner, a distance of several hundred meters.


maybe not to the nearest 5mph but we have a claim that those those pinpricks were closing at 50mph. Unless this was the world's longest 85mph overtake of a truck doing 56mph or less then you figure it out.

Hmm, I reckon the trenches have been dug and defensive positions adopted in this debate