Safe Speed Forums

Add M6 north of Jcn 4 to that, especially more so when traffic is heavy.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

It's true on any motorway, even with the chevrons someone will fill that gap for you within about 10 seconds of you creating it.

The one that really gets me is the chevrons on the M1 around Milton Keynes. They only bothered putting them in L1 and L2, sending the message that it's ok to tailgate if you're in L3 (or perhaps that they realise that asking L3 occupants not to tailgate is a lost cause)

As for Clarkson, he's like the ranting drunken old man you can find in many country pubs. He talks shite constantly, you know he's talking shite, but you still listen to him because he's funny. Jeremy Clarkson is likely to become one of these in the future.

OTOH, his idea of asking the cars that are genuinely causing enormous queues to stop doing so is a good one, assuming you get someone with a clue about traffic management to do it. Imagine if the matrix signs changed to say something like:

when the traffic cams spotted a middle lane moron causing a big queue.

NO WAY!

Why do some people think this and others not?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Ok maybe not any motorway, but any thats at or over capacity (eg. M42 from 7-11AM)

I agree, on any motorway that has a medium to heavy load of traffic then any gap approaching 1 second will be almost immediately filled by another driver. Less so in L1, but in L2 or L3 it happens very quickly.

This is especially true near any major conurbation such as London, Birmingham, Manchester etc. So M25, M3, M4, M40, M1, M42, M6, M5, M62 etc, and most Motorway class DCs such as A3, A34 - but only in the heavily used regions.

This is the reason that the majority of tailgaters will give for why they drive so close to the vehicle in front on motorways - they will have tried leaving a gap a few times, had it immediately filled, dropped back, had it filled again, dropped back, had it filled again, then said "Sod it!" and closed up the gap and it stops happening. If you are not continuously having vehicles cut in front of you then it is safer than when you are, so by common logic (and making driving easier and less stressful) being closer to the vehicle in front is safer than leaving the gap.

The root cause is the relatively heavy traffic load (or lack of capacity), and of course the speed regulation of lorries that forces all lighter traffic into L3. To get into L3 you have to use smaller gaps as waiting for a nice large gap is a pointless task as one will never come. Unfortunately this then becomes habit and happens even when it is not that congested.

I don't get it. It does NOT happen to me. What on earth is going on?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Lum,

Have you got the video recorder working in your car yet? Perhaps a short recording will help show Paul what happens.

The thing that used to annoy me a lot is that when they pull in front of you, it is always you they are cutting in front of, rather than taking the extra risk themselves - if I pull into a gap I will always be close to the vehicle in front and gently drop back to open the gap, these people always leave a larger gap in front and almost nothing behind.

Clearly there must be a reason that some think it happens frequently and some don't. We need to know what that reason is. Is it perception? Is it driving technique? Is it confined to special flow conditions? Is it confined to particular places?

If my 'safety space' was 'taken' by another driver more than 5 times in 100 miles I'd be pretty amazed. Of course it does happen, but it's very very far from frequent.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I think the style of driving does change in different areas. On my infrequent journeys on the M25 it seems like a different planet to what I am used to. Could Lum and Rewolf frequent different motorways from Paul?

Doesn't seem very likely - I'm all over the place. But I agree we cannot yet eliminate the possibility.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I thought I was the only one to be bemused by this Paul!

I was discussing things that other drivers do that annoy me with a friend once - and there are many. However, when he mentioned other drivers doing this, I was surprised - I have never experienced this, and on the rare occasions I have, I just ease off the gas a bit.

Maybe what annoys folk when driving is just extremely subjective, and what gets some people's backs up doesn't bother others...

I also just ease off the gas a bit, then the next one does it, and I have to ease off a bit more, and it happens again. You know it is getting ridiculous when vehicles start obviously overtaking just you, because you have become the problem through easing off all the time.

I don't mind the odd one here or there, although when they pull in with about a 6' gap it gets annoying, and after 3 or 4 in quick succession ...

It happens most in L2 when the average speed has been reduced to 65 or so through wieght of traffic or "elephant races".

You don't though do you - "ease off a bit more" that is. You may "ease off a bit" and then, when you've re-established your separation, you "ease back on". You may "ease off a bit again", but each time you wil be able to accelerate back up to the prevailing traffic speed when you've re-stablished your desired gap.

As I said earlier, I drive M25 J16-J10 and back every working day and this phenomenon rarely happens to me. I really don't recognise it as an issue.

If it really is happening to you a lot, what is different about the way you and I (and Paul, it seems) are driving (or is is perception)? Or is it possible there is something in your driving 'body language' that makes other drivers think you're not intending to keep up with the flow in your lane? No criticism intended. I'm just exploring the issue.

How can one maintain a safe distance with variable speed limits. The consertina (i must have spelt that wrong) alone, is a consequence of the this ridiculous system. Much like speed cameras really.

Observer, Yes I would like to ease back on - but the next vehicle pulls into the gap before I get the full 2 sec gap opened again. Rest assured that I accelerate where there is a space to move into - my car is very good at acceleration (0-62 in 4.9, and on boost, faster than all but about 0.2% of vehicles on the road), the problem is normally the other drivers that don't appreciate it.

For example in a legal(ish) frame of mind I am trying to maintain about 70 to 80 mph on a 3 lane motorway, and keeping in L1 whenever possible. I am in L2 passing a group of lorries, with a van in front that is doing 65, and a stream of vehicles in L3 with no gap or reason for me to go into L3 as the van is going back into L1 in a few seconds.

The van moves back into L1, so I ease on the throttle to get up to 70 and immediately have to lift as I am going faster that the L3 car that is cutting back into L2, without looking, no more than 6' in front of me. L3 drivers don't look out for an L2 vehicle that they think they have passed - they assume that I am still doing 65. So to open 6' up to a sensible gap I have to slow back to 65mph, and the moment the gap opens to about 1 second the next L3 pulls in, then the next... to everybody else I am now the obstruction holding up L2 and L3, but it is the L3 drivers pulling into L2 that are blocking me. I cannot even go back into L1 as I am still parallel with the van.

My car's not as powerful as yours, but the story sounds all too familiar.

Part two normally involves all the cars behind me filing into L3 with not gaps boxing me in forever more.....

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That's it exactly. The only way out of it is to:

a) Give up on 70mph and pull into L1 at 65mph behind the van, and wait until the surge has passed, which might be 5 to 10 miles or more.

or

b) Go into aggressive mode, use the acceleration to pull into the first slightly larger than normal L3 gap, then overtake everybody that cut in front of me until it is clear to get back into L2/L1 where I slow down again.

Funny enough, if I am in the mood to be "flexible with the speed limit" and stick to L3, I can leave a 2 second gap which L2s will pull into with a lot more care - and I do let them - but they will soon clear out of the way and I am off past them before they have even completed the lane change. Where is the incentive for the gentle legal driving style?

Oddly enough, I find "legal" driving quite stressful on motorways, for these very reasons. Step it up a few mph and I can be clear of other vehicles before any of this nonsense starts.

I do find that by going slightly faster than legally allowed, I am excluded from all these situations of "local congestion" for want of a better term. I find it's all those trying to obey the law that end up bunched together annoying one another.

For me, it's a balance of choosing a speed which gets me clear of other traffic as soon as possible, whilst limiting the differential to a manageable speed so that I have some options should someone switch lanes ahead of me. Rocketing past at 100+ is pretty dangerous, but I going by situational awareness and workload, I'm happier passing a group of vehicles at 80-85 than I am crawling past at 70-75mph.

Shame I'm a murderous criminal eh??

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cant beleive no one picked this up....

probably too scared to pull infront of you

There's always one isn't there?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety