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 Post subject: MCN article
PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 20:01 
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I cannot see this anywhere on the site

Wildy rides a motorbike sometimes :yikes: I am not a big fan .. I prefer cars and normal bicycles .. but Wildy and Kriss .... :roll:


I think they decided as young teenagers that anything the boys in the Swiss family could do .. they coud do just as well - if not better :shock: :lol: :roll: :wink:

We sometimes get MCN as a result .. of Wildy's biking interest. Nope - she does not do excess speeds on that Honda she rides.. and Krissi's Ducati may have a top speed of 140 mph ... but I do not think she has ever ridden that speed - even in Germany. :lol:

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I am not sure about this article or the "science" ... but for debate purposes .. it's food for thought :wink:

Wildy once said the danger of cams is one of a Pavlovian dog - as in "looking for and slowing as soon as cam or van appears and being oblivious to any other danger" !

(would not matter if they were hidden :wink: Ordinary drivers know what they look like and would look for these beyond any other hazard)


This raw data seems to indicate substance to the observation :wink:


Per the article though - Professor Underwood seems to suggest that drivers seem to look only for cams.

Paul - might be worth looking at his site and perhaps contacting him to discuss stuff?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 20:08 
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Interesting points - one that immediately springs to mind is ---


Have SMIDSY incidents / motorbike incidents of this type increased since the introduction of cams ??

In other words - are drivers using the observation / losing out on observation perception on bikes , because the brain is geared to the penalty perception of cams??

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 20:36 
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I hope the description of the intended method is inadequate, because the method sounds inadequate.

Real observation failures leading to real incidents are quite rare - perhaps 1 in 500 events. If I understand the method - subjects looking at static photographs - I have the following concerns:

1) Observation of the photos may not be adequate to simulate the observation of dynamic traffic.

2) How will anyone know that any observation characteristic is genuinely the one leading to critical failures?

3) It seems that the assumption is that the actual behaviour leading to critical failures must be quite commonplace - but this may well not be the case.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 20:39 
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Paul - my concerns - hence my thought that some figures on the pre and post cam figures might be worth while


regards

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 20:44 
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True.. why we have reservations as to this article.

However - this chap might be worth contacting for more details as he reckons drivers are more concerned with cams than any other hazard.

I think we have to estaablish why he thinks so. :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 20:46 
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Mad Moggie wrote:
However - this chap might be worth contacting for more details as he reckons drivers are more concerned with cams than any other hazard.


Absolutely.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 21:07 
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Paul - this subject has spawned an idea - will throw it into brainstorming under "human irq"

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 22:56 
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This is a transcription of the text.

Quote:
DRIVERS FAIL TO SEE BIKES.

Scientist uses eye-tracking camera to explain collisions

BY TOM RAYNER

MCN has teamed up with leading UK scientists in a world-first investigation to finally prove that motorists can’t see bikers.

Professor Geoff Underwood from Nottingham University has received EU funding to carry out groundbreaking tests to find out why car drivers “look, but fail to see motorcyclists”.

Armed with a state-of-the-art EyeMark eye-tracker camera and a series of photos, provided by MCN.

Professor Underwood,s team is set to test car drivers in laboratory conditions to find out exactly what they do and don’t se.

Professor Underwood said: “I want to cut the number of SMIDSY (Sorry Mate I Didn’t See You) type of accident.”

To do so he will show the participants a d series of photographs of various road traffic scenarios and use the EyeMark camera to track their pupil movement.

The sophisticated technology can tell the Professor exactly when and where the car drivers are looking. In every image is a motorcyclist, in various levels of prominence. The tests will attempt to discover when a rider is most visible.

The results will discover what a driver looks at first and why. For example, if bright colours attract the attention of it the drivers can spot potential hazards.

How can a car driver look at you but not see you.

Professor Underwood has dedicated his professional career in cognitive psychology with the relationship between visual attention and skill.

He explained to MCN how a car driver waiting at a junction could look straight at an approaching biker and still fail to see them, thus causing an accident.

“The easiest way to explain this phenomena is with the gorilla experiment,” said Underwood.

“A group of American students shot a film which asked the viewer to count the number of catches a group of basketball players in white tope made. Another group in black tops were also passing the ball to one another at the same time.

“You are so busy trying to watch the white team that you completely miss the fact that a man in a gorilla suit walks into the middle of the screen and waves at you. It’s only when you watch the film for a second time and are told to look for the gorilla that you see it – you won’t believe you missed it first time because it’s so obvious.

“The theory is the same for car drivers - they sit at a junction looking left and right for oncoming cars, vans and lorries. Because they’re not expecting to see a motorcyclist then they don’t see a motorcyclist.
“It is for exactly this reason that I think the DfT’s ‘Think Bike’ signs at the road side will focus the concentration of car drivers to consider motorcyclists.”

If you want to see how the experiment works then try it on your friends and colleagues. View is at http://viscog.beckman.uiuc.edu/grafs/demo/15.htm .

The given link didn’t work, try http://viscog.beckman.uiuc.edu/djs_lab/ ... ml/15.html


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 07:44 
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I think it also apply to cyclists too. Perhaps ist more than a bit of substance in that they do not see "because they do not expect to see". In the case of the cyclist .. I think may be more prevalent on the really fast roads as a great many of us will think "WHOARGH! :yikes: .. that ist a fast road - 60 mph .. I cannot pedal that fast!"

Ist just a thought.

When I ride my motorbike .. I know as driver where the "SMIDSY" blind spots are - so I ride to ensure not in these danger spots.


But if you think back to that Krypton Factor round where they had to watch a clip of a film und then were asked observation questions.. very few scored high marks in that round. So ist not a new phenomenum - but ist still a area of human activity which need researching properly :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:20 
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I've started to ride a motorbike again after a gap of over 3 years (against my better half's advice which is why I am on a 125 rather than a 600). Although the lights are wired to so that the headlight is always on, I can tell that the SMIDSY phenomenon is worse now than when I last used to ride (also with dipped headlight). I think I should get a fluorescent yellow or green jacket to put over my leathers to see if this will help motorists see me better. It's a trail bike and I'm over 6' tall.

I know as a car driver that many other drivers don't look properly at junctions - many don't look both ways for a start and often pull out regardless of whether another vehicle is approaching, so maybe being more visible on a motorbike won't help and being able to avoid a collision when (not if) this happens is more important.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 21:22 
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You could have a neon sign and a brass band and it wouldn't help. :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 22:30 
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I think it's anything smaller than the average sized car.

My GF regularly complains that her 200SX seems to be invisible, though in my experience it's drivers of larger cars that seem less likely to see it (despite it being bright red). I suspect because it's lower down than what these people are looking for. I have suggested that she put a big flag on the car but she seems reluctant for some reason ;)

Similarly a motorbike or a bike will not be wide enough to register.

Despite being completely illegal. I actually quite like the purple headlights some bikers are fitting. They're unique enough that you notice them (though I suppose the gorilla experiment would put me in a minority there) and they dont piss you off as much when the bike behind you has full beams on and the frame is vibrating all over the place.

I suppose one good thing to come out of cameras, if more police forces start to deploy the so-called "Talibikes" (a bike with a camera on the back that can be used while moving) then drivers will start looking out for bikes more.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 22:36 
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:yesyes: Flashing lights, flashing blue lights and the whoo-whooos and some fail to notice :roll: :roll:

Seem to think a lot of university brains and boffins are investigating these human failures to oberve the blinkin' obvious.
:roll:

But then they did some research some years ago regarding the abundance of traffic signs and concluded we will take in consciously three things and too much information can be an overload of information. They thought at the time that this answered a part of this equation in that most will focus on the information they are specifically looking for

Cannot recall which journal I read it in now .... :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 23:57 
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One part of the difficulty (of course!) is that there are actually a number of different failures that lead to SMIDSYs.

One is A pillar obscuration.
Another is the retinal blind spot
A third is drivers with inadequate observation routines (and I mean grossly inadequate - like not even looking at all in one direction).
Frankly, I think those are the big three. None of them are improved by headlights or any other visibility measure.

Then we're into psycho-visual effects. Looming. Motion camouflage. Expectation.

The range of effects won't make it easy for this 'study' to reach any conclusions.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 00:21 
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Also - I think there are variations in eyesight and reaction times when danger seen transmits to brain which then gears up into action plans. Wildy , I think, passed an observation that each of us will have a very different perception of the potential hazard we see and we will prioritise according to how we each individually view that danger.

The acid test of course if there is a collision or prang is how far a reasonably averagely competetent driver or biker or cyclist could have avoided the incident. :roll:

The eye tracking gadget will be interesting as each subject's gaze and focus will be unique to the subject and the set of circumstances prevalent at the time. Thus I think they would have to set the control model in a simulator set to an identical situation first - and even then I would bet there will a wide variation of gaze in all subjects.

Still - his research will be anything but dull 8-) :lol:

Who knows - it may churn up the elusive missing link in our understanding of observation and anticipation - eventually :wink: but I fear a longish wait.. :roll:

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