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 Post subject: Headlamps
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 13:36 
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One instant way of improving road safety to my mind would be the compulsory use of dipped headlamps during daylight hours as in the Scandinavian countries. Anything which improves your ability to be seen MUST increase safety.

Also it would be very easy to police - no lights - you get a fine, far easier than speed cameras for "tax" collection!


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 Post subject: Re: Headlamps
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 14:18 
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dukespencer wrote:
One instant way of improving road safety to my mind would be the compulsory use of dipped headlamps during daylight hours as in the Scandinavian countries. Anything which improves your ability to be seen MUST increase safety.


Nice assumption, but what is the effect of your headlights on the ability to be seen, of pedestrians and cyclists? I expect it would make it worse. What about when you drive over a speed bump, and an oncoming driver thinks you have flashed your lights at him / her?

The First Group, which runs buses around here (Manchester) have taken to keeping dipped headlights on buses at all times (as if buses are not already clearly visible!!). They said this was "proven" to reduce accidents. When I asked to see the proof, they changed their wording to "we believe" it will reduce accidents!


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 14:40 
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I ride a bike and by choice do not use my headlights during the day. I am of the belief that they can be distracting to other users as well as possibly confusing them as to your speed. Additionally they can be interpreted as aggressive. However I am prepared to listen to the arguments for and against and change my stance if the evidence is there.

'Always on lights' are now compulsory on all new bikes.

Max

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 Post subject: Re: Headlamps
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 18:15 
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dukespencer wrote:
One instant way of improving road safety to my mind would be the compulsory use of dipped headlamps during daylight hours as in the Scandinavian countries. Anything which improves your ability to be seen MUST increase safety.

Hmm, controversial subject. See:

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/~dadrl/

(hosted by Paul, but not Paul's own page)

What would be the effect on the safety of pedestrians and cyclists who wouldn't be using dipped headlamps and therefore would be rendered less visible?

I see it as the equivalent of arguing that the best way to get your message across is through shouting.

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Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed


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 Post subject: Headlamps
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 21:33 
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What is the great objection to the daytime use of dipped headlamps?? The argument about cyclists and pedestrians seems very feeble to me.. The argument about being aggressive .. what's that all about? If everybody used dipped lights then who's being aggressive? I'm only thinking that the use use of daytime dipped lights leads to seeing that oncoming vehicle just that split second earlier and preventing these dodgy overtakes that we are all guilty of sometimes and preventing that head-on. We all are against the use use use of speed cameras to enforce arbitrary speed limits and agree that a good driver should drive to the linits of his visibility. surely the use of dipped lights increases the perception of that visibilty? Maybe I'm wrong but certainly driving in Norway and Sweden many years ago just after they had brought in the legislation about daytime lights I was impressed by just how far in the distance it was possible to see approaching vehicles.


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 Post subject: LIghting faults
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 23:53 
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Another good idea but a bit more radical would be to snap of drivers full beam stick and remove all spotlights so oncoming drivers are blinded no more! And what about these high intensity h/lights are they not illegal? they bloody well should be.

P.S. Would all taxi drivers please get their loose h/light reflectors fixed..PLEASE! And all women remember to turn off the fog light when the fog has disappeared.

Andrew


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 Post subject: Re: Headlamps
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 00:33 
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dukespencer wrote:
What is the great objection to the daytime use of dipped headlamps??


The key argument is the overnight massive increase that will be seen in M/Cycle casualties.

You cage driving non biking road users use the excuse SMIDSY too often and so we bikers try to make it easier for you by riding with lights on. The moment you put all vehicles with daytime running lights you will make us invisable.

Since Bikers are now regarded as the most vulnerable road users and since it is part of the transport policy to encourage more PTW usage for single vehicle occupancy daytime running lights are a very bad idea indeed.

Before people start on at me that bikers are their own worst enemy and that we kill ourselves by our riding I would urge you to read MAIDS (Motorcycle accident in depth study) that has just been released.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 12:41 
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Dont see how that would aid visibilty that much. On a bright sunny day it is almost impossible to see dipped beams, or even indicators for that matter.
Why dont we all paint our cars in dayglo pink or yellow? There would be absolutely no chance of being missed then....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 02:10 
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Whilst I can't really see an argument from the previous posts against having dipped lights on during the day, the above point about bright sunny days does raise an issue for consideration. There was a military experement some years ago where lights were placed on vehicles and the intensity varied to match the background lighting. It made the vehicles totally invisible. Whilst the idea proved effective the implementation was somewhat flawed in that you had to observe the vehicle from where the enemy was in order to adjust the intensity,,, not perhaps the best place to be standing. :?
While it may be necessary to get an exact balance between the forelight and backligt to achieve this illusion of invisibility a fairly close match would result in the object being rather more difficult to see than if there were no forelight at all.
I wouldn't like to guess at how often this phenomenon is likely to occur on our roads but would say it would be most likely to happen at sunrise and sunset, something that Scandinavian countries experience differently to us and so their experience may not be so relevent.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 07:17 
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Pug205GRD wrote:
Dont see how that would aid visibilty that much. On a bright sunny day it is almost impossible to see dipped beams, or even indicators for that matter.
Why dont we all paint our cars in dayglo pink or yellow? There would be absolutely no chance of being missed then....


Trouble is, you're right.

So a brilliantly coloured vehicle in the middle distance tends to render invisible something less attention grabbing but far closer. For example your ultra visible cars will sometimes drag a drivers attention from a non-day-glow pedestrian.

In this way highly visible vehicles tend to get more attention, but that in itself is dangerous because less highly visible things deserve attention too.

On balance we need all hazards to have EQUAL visibility, and that means no daytime headlights in good conditions for vehicles with otherwise normal visibility.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 07:36 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
Pug205GRD wrote:
Dont see how that would aid visibilty that much. On a bright sunny day it is almost impossible to see dipped beams, or even indicators for that matter.
Why dont we all paint our cars in dayglo pink or yellow? There would be absolutely no chance of being missed then....


Trouble is, you're right.

So a brilliantly coloured vehicle in the middle distance tends to render invisible something less attention grabbing but far closer. For example your ultra visible cars will sometimes drag a drivers attention from a non-day-glow pedestrian.


But that non day glo pedestrian is less likely to step into the road because he/she will be more likely to see high visibilty vehicles!

I personally agree with using headlights more (my headlights on my bike are permentely on), but day-glo cars? :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 09:10 
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No problem with dipped beams on 'bikes at all times. It's the gormless prats with twin 12v halogens that should be banned! You're blind you for several seconds after they're long gone at their 100 plus mph. What a world if EVERYONE drove on main beams. Do they think dipped are invisible? :roll:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 09:27 
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GSXR wrote:
But that non day glo pedestrian is less likely to step into the road because he/she will be more likely to see high visibilty vehicles!


Yes, that's true and a very valid argument.

Like many things in road safety the system is very finely balanced.

I suggest that we should need very compelling evidence to dare to disturb that balance. There's no such evidence in favour of DRL, but if there was I'd leap to change my mind.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:13 
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Off topic but how about bringing in the offence of jaywalking
May make pedestrians les vulnerable by their own stupidity. I see people crossing the road in my town centre 50 yards from a crossing just because they are too lazy to go to the crossing.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 22:02 
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Personally I feel it's back to the classic quote from Mr Bliar "Education, Education....etc"

It shouldnt be necessary to use daytime lights on a car, but I always road my bike with the headlight on! - I say shouldnt be necessary - fact is too many drivers dont switch on in poor light/visibility, especially on motorways.

Are these drivers afraid of having to replace their headlight bulbs? - as someone once said to me - "what's cheaper - a new bulb or a new car?"!


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