Safe Speed Forums

What a wag you are Ian. You had me going for a while!
Next time I'm up your way with my 1964 Cooper 'S' I'll give you a ride over Hardnott & Wrynose at a 'brisk' pace. You can have a drive as well if you like.

Look forward to it!

Drop me a PM whenever you're coming up. I'm sure JT would be up for it too.

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Fixed ideas are like cramp, for instance in the foot, yet the best remedy is to step on them.

Ian

Well it is twisty, narrow, and there is no footpath so pedestrians have to walk in the road - so of course you wouldn't put camera in, not enough money to be made as vast majority of drivers will be going at safe speed for the conditions - which is likely in this case to be below any speed limit.

Suggest you read the back issues of the cumberland news. There I think you will find its not about cash cameras and about casualty reduction.

JJ

Is that the correct term for them now? I thought they were meant to be "safety" cameras.

Open mouth. Place foot in mouth.....

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"CAMERAS "DO NOT" SAVE LIVES" !!
(Richard Brunstrom Says so !!)

How can it be about casualty reduction when only about 5% of all accidents are caused by the exceeding of speed limits?
The vast majority of speed related accidents are caused by the inappropriate use of speed and that, with respect, is something entirely different and something your silly cameras can never address, no matter how much 'spin' you apply.
Of course it's about the cash. It's also about the enforcement of speed limits 'to the letter' which may make certain police chiefs and politicians look good, in the same way as Tony B'liars search for weapons of mass destruction was meant to make him look good. It's politics, my dear chap, not safety. It's perceived road safety 'on the cheap'.
Pity you can't see that.

Ian,

JT has experienced both my car and winning an event with me. But then, you should ask him
I look forward to meeting you in due course.

Peter

I once encountered a woman driver in a Fiat 126 who had gotten out of sync in the bends on Hardnott, and having failed to get lined up for one, then goofed the next, suffered an anxiety attack, and could not do a hill start to get going again.
A group of drivers baulked behind her got out to push - including myself.
As we went to put hands on the back, we burnt our hands on the exceedingly overheated rear panel over the engine!!
OUCH!
Eventually one driver whose partner was able to drive his car, stepped into the drivers seat and drove the woman to the top as a passenger in her own car!
However, the same year, on Honister Pass, we witnessed an altercation between a driver and his wife, as she poured scorn on his inability to do the hill start. He climbed out, and yelled "If you can **** do better, YOU drive!" She slid over the handbrake, revved up, slipped the clutch and drove off up the pass, leaving her husband gesticulating wildly at the bottom! When we saw her next, she was in a layby a half mile up the road, having a cigarette while she waited for him to walk up! We wanted to wait and see the result of his enforced walk, but could'nt spare the time!

I hope nothing untoward spoild your enjoyment!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

I can confirm that there was indeed an occasion when I was both honoured and privileged to witness the not inconsiderable skills of Cooperman at first hand. In fact I am looking at the trophy as I type this!

(and the pace was definitely "Brisk" )

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

cracking bit of road, that!

One one occasion I had to suffer the thankless task of putting a few miles on a development TVR so I headed up that way. Unfortunately, that particular car didn't have much steering lock - not enough for all the hairpins! Fortunately, it was fitted with another means of changing direction in confined spaces so I ended up using that on many of the bends! Oh well, every job has its perks!

Another story about that road was told to me by a friend of my wife's - a native of these parts. Apparently, her grandfather used to drive army trucks loaded with high explosives over the pass in the blackout frequently...

...but they stopped him doing it when they found out he was blind in one eye and his other one was a bit iffy!

Every motorists worst nightmare?
Two years ago I was marshaling on an historic rally that went over Hardknott, and we were stationed at the next control. After the last competitor had passed, the "course closing car" appeared and asked if we could give two guys a lift back to Ambleside. As we headed back they described how they came to be requiring a lift:

They were tackling the eastern side of Hardknott in a Sunbeam Harrington Le Mans. About a third of the way up, just before all the hairpins there is a sudden vicious steep section (you will remember it if you've passed over there as the bit where you "lose your horizon"). Unfortunately, as they were nearing the top of this there was a loud bang from the rear of the car: their diff had failed to withstand the torque being transmitted under this extreme test, and the casing had literally exploded. So they suddenly and unexpectedly lost all drive.

This wouldn't have been so bad in itself, except that a fragment of flying diff casing happened to slice through a brake pipe. This car of course predated "dual circuit" brake hydraulics, so one cut pipe meant complete brake failure.

He grabbed for the handbrake, but of course this would struggle to hold the car on that gradient on a good day, let alone arrest it once already rolling backwards, with the linings still "cooked" from the recent descent of Wrynose.

So they shot backwards down the steepest road in England, in the dark, with no brakes and no drive. Pause if you will, dear reader, and consider that prospect for a second or two!

Anyway, after about 20 feet of "free fall" they slid off the side of the road and hit a substantial rock which finally brought them to a halt. The driver said to me that never before had he experienced such acceleration, nor such a sense of relief at driving into a rock!

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

One winter, I went over Wrynose in a Vauxhall Nova, and having reached the summit with no ice or snow encountered, other than on the verges, I persuaded my passenger that since she was learning to drive, and we had seen no other cars since Little Langdale, she should take the opportunity to enhance her driving skills, and complete the far side drive.
Much to the distress of the two rear seat passengers, she finally agreed!
After a little coaching, she was able to master the bends without difficulty.
She passed her test later in the year with flying colours - but not before she had locked us out of the car as we got out to admire the Duddon in winter spate! Her excuse was that in Rochdale you ALWAYS locked your car, even when just a matter of feet away!
"Not with the key still in the ignition I hope" was my reply. Luckily a wire coat hanger we borrowed from the pub got us back in, but only after an enforced walk there and back!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

OUCH!

...and I don't suppose it had head restraints either! Still, I guess it was before "whiplash" was invented

The father of a mate of mine had a Riley 2.5 RM in the early 50s and, apparently, suffered hydraulic failure on the brakes on the way down Hardknott . It was one of those ingenious systems where they didn't quite trust hydraulics so the front brakes were hydraulic and the rears were rod actuated. Cleverer than that, the master cylinder was part of the linkage so as it bottomed out, having lost all its fluid, it jus tbecame a rigid part of the linkage and still worked the rear brakes. That said, it was then "Hobson's choice" as he had to choose between not slowing down enough or locking the rear wheels! Apparently he (and my mate's mum) nearly became statistics!

Fortunately, however, since the advent of camera enforcement, cars have become a lot safer

Actually no. As I'm sure Cooperman will affirm, there are areas of historic car preparation where "period authenticity" is very sensibly ignored. This car was properly prepared, with high back competition seats, full harness belts and a full roll cage.

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

Quite right, JT, my 1964 Cooper 'S' has full current FIA safety equipment. It's just the mechanical specification which remains as original, with only 'period engine mods' permitted.
Interesting to hear mention of the Riley 2.5 RM. I had a Ford V8 Pilot as my first car. This, for those who don't know, was a British 3.6 litre Ford V8 based on the pre-war US model. It had drum brakes up front and rod actuated at the rear. Weighing in at nearly 2 tons and capable of 90 mph on cross-ply tyres it really was not too safe. This is a good example of improvements in auto design over the last 50+ years. However, even as a 20 year-old I never had an accident in it, despite driving it flat out everywhere and getting about 12 to 14 mpg. No seat belts, but a big bench front seat.

If it's to do with casualty reduction why are there cameras on 30mph dual carriageways?

Photographic evidence exists to support this allegation.

Here it is...

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

Evidence ain't what it used to be...

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety