Safe Speed Forums

http://www.nwemail.co.uk/news/viewartic ... ?id=516119

Money, not safety, is real goal

Published on 02/07/2007

KEVIN Tea’s letter (Evening Mail, May 21) in response to a previous letter, was predictable.

As communications manager for Cumbria Safety Cameras, his brief is to dismiss any criticism of this revenue generating machine and to justify its existence.

The safety camera premise is fundamentally flawed. Cameras are usually sited on long straight sections of road. Most accidents occur on the entrance to or the exit from bends.

This may have the side effect of reducing some accidents, but their location is much more likely to generate revenue.

It is almost universally agreed that a major cause of accidents is impatience. It is therefore, much more profitable to tackle those road users who wilfully obstruct the progress of others.

So why isn’t it done?

There is simply no money in it. So while it would cut accidents and reduce congestion, CO2 emissions etc, it wouldn’t make any money and that, despite Kevin Tea’s protestations, is what it is all about.

SIMON SILVIE

Hawcoat Lane

Barrow

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Indeed, Mr Tea's cameras actually CAUSE congestion... and danger on a blind bend close to where there was a fatality a week or two before my pictures were taken!

and a mile back down the road, is the result of that queue...

The result of drivers slowing to WELL BELOW the posted limit "just in case..."

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Hi I was told about this site from a pal of mine after he got a ticket. and have been reading from the side lines, and thought I would comment on the A591 as I use it quite a bit. I have been travelling between Kendal and Ambleside everyday for years and know what Ernest is getting at, the traffic on that road is terrible. It was terrible even before the cameras sometimes the tailbacks head back all the way to Ambleside. In the summer it gets worse especially at weekends when the tourists come to visit. Im very suprised that vehicles can even go that fast to get a ticket during the summer months. My mate got his ticket at Ings when the road was less congested, late at night on the way to windermere didn't even see them, must admit I had a laugh when he told me. The cameras have been there for a couple of years now so being a local he didnt get much sympathy from me, he has been travelling that route for ages and the cameras are even signed. Ive got use to them now and no longer have the twitchy foot on the brake pedal as drive through them

If you use the A591 regularly, then you had better be aware of the planned traffic lights at the Windermere Junction!!

THEN you will see holdups!

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Of course it's the money, but it's also about governmental control of the many by the few. For years successive gov'ts have dreamed of control over the individual and, with all the many types of camera available now, their dreams are coming true. The UK is the surveillance-capital of the World. With the speed cameras they can also make a nice profit whilst hiding this behind a 'safety' mantra (or they hope they can).
However, the lies, spin and obfuscation is showing in ever-increasing ways . Figures show that only c.4% of all accidents involve vehicles being driven in excess of the speed limit, that HNS figures for hospital admissions show the manipulation of the KSI figures by the cash-camera partnerships, that various independent surveys show that around 80% of those asked feel that cameras are just there to make money, and that the Camera Partnerships are desparate to keep their jobs and salaries.
One must wonder what sort of people work for those 'Pratnerships'. Not the sort of people anyone would want as a next-door-neighbour!

There are an abundance of people who covert whatever power then can.

I know some first aiders who love the fact that they can wear a 'uniform' and direct people at events.

Those pictures look bad, and, thankfully, alien to me. I live in a fairly densely populated area (the Thames Valley) but, thankfully, 90%+ of primary routes round here are dual carriageway to make up for it. Therefore, touch wood, situations like that at Ings just don't occur. The single carriageway A-roads contain just as many 40-everywhere and "won't overtake, won't let anyone in" drivers as anywhere else, but thankfully there are few enough cars to make passing possible most of the time. Regular queues just don't happen outside rush hour, and even then it's only in some town centres and it's unusual to be more than 15 cars back from whichever junction you're at.

Also, although the local "safety" camera partnership has mobile vans just like any other, the only ones I've seen are comparatively toothless; in the same manner as a Gatso, you seemingly actually have to speed right past the van to pick up a fine. They do try to put you off with a yellow roof light but they're still easy to spot. No motorway enforcement either, although they do predictably choose roads where the 85th percentile is well above the speed limit.

If you're a motorist who's feeling beleagured, I can honestly say that Oxfordshire isn't too bad a place to drive. There are some ridiculously and notoriously low speed limits, but without laser cameras to enforce them, they're regularly and IMHO rightly ignored. There are some silly hatchings and other similar annoyances but everywhere's like that now, isn't it?

While never getting too complacent I feel we're fairly lucky round here as it goes. The road quality : number of cars ratio appears to be higher than somewhere like Cumbria, and the SCP isn't too menacing. The fact that they still appear to be making money doesn't make me too optimistic about the observational skills of those who are caught. (I'm so going to get a surprise in the post soon.... )

having been driving around a lot in many unknown towns and villages i can honestly say that the plan of observance is the following order :

1) cameras (you understand that whether or NOT I am well, within or at the speed limit) - I like to be really 'safe' and drive about 10mph below the stated limit just in case it was lowered and they forgot to sign it right !
2) Quick general road scan,
3) cars and then people in area,
4) junctions and driveways,
5) road furnishings - lights etc
6) detail road scan of hazards,
7) Route Direction ....
8) instruments (my car)
and so on ...

This is about the order of continuous scan that I do. By the time you have checked all the above I sometimes have no time left to 'know' the route, the sat nav can be delayed or you are just too busy looking 'out'.
If there are red traffic lights I worry that even if I go across correctly something might stop my progress, (999 vehcile etc) and I might get done! I treat these lights with worrying ability - I am not used to them at all, and it is un-nerving.
I would NEVER go through a red light, but how do you know that the red light camera is not mal-functing and will get you .... I know the amber (at worst) should show in any following situation - but it is worrying, and I spend the time going through the light looking at the lights (great for my observation skills), instead of, if any car is running their red light, etc etc ...
I absolutely hate all these distracting cameras. They take my eyes off the road and look UP (even worse), at the lights / camera.
I am losing touch with the road and I really find it most uncomfortable. I like my eyes and brain to be working hard on the road checking - double, triple checking the whole time, not wasting time worrying about cameras that may be lurking behind a bush tree - or a van around the next bend or over the hill. With the best will in the world, a copule of cameras have still caught me by surprise ! I ended up having to brake a bit.
And I (believe) have exceptionally good eyesight, and excellent observation skills, but I cannot simply be looking at everything at once, so to have no sympathy (or little), with the driver, who either goes on a route regularly or is new to the area, (you did not imply this - but there are some that feel this way), is perhaps not understanding the physiology that these horrid cameras rely on.
Even when you know that they are there, with the best will in the world, one day you will 'forget', simply by it's 'regular' appearance, and be momentarily thinking about something else, or distracted by some hazard etc. We are human - we make mistakes.

As they are, so not about safety, but, rely on a paranoid creating culture of mistrust and mistakes, to justify their pointless existence, the poor driver is never going to 'win'.
The aim is that you are 'ground down' to just 'do the limit' everywhere, and slowly believe that it 'works'. This is what they hope you will resort to as they know that you will need to find a way to cope with them, as you need your licence. It is really ugly! I am not sure what this is called in terms of the physiology... perhaps someone here knows....
Your friend they hope you will not show sympathy for, as then he too thinks that he should just 'drive the limit, or lose his licence in the end'.
At this point they think that they are winning, and to a degree they are, as people then drive at the limit. Yes they have slowed people down, BUT are those people driving with interest or paying attention. NO, far from it.
You vaguely go from A to B, in a manner that the lowest common denominator might. (The person that has no interest in driving or care how they get there.)
These drivers cannot tell you who passed them, where any car turned off in front or behind them, who gave them a possible problem or who didn't. The driver just becomes a mechanical machine from A to B, all interest or care is entirely on Auto pilot.

I am NOT trying to 'get at you', just discussing this horrid attitude, that the government is hoping that you will fall into, along with what they hope everyone will end up doing to.

It reminds me of horse training by 'breaking the spirit' of the horse.
You force a control on something and they hate you for it.
You encourage the 'right' methods and you have the 'trainee' leaping for joy at the descovery of success and achievement.

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

having been driving around a lot in many unknown towns and villages i can honestly say that the plan of observance is the following order :

1) cameras (you understand that whether or NOT I am well, within or at the speed limit) - I like to be really 'safe' and drive about 10mph below the stated limit just in case it was lowered and they forgot to sign it right !
2) Quick general road scan,
3) cars and then people in area,
4) junctions and driveways,
5) road furnishings - lights etc
6) detail road scan of hazards,
7) Route Direction ....
8) instruments (my car)
and so on ...

This is about the order of continuous scan that I do. By the time you have checked all the above I sometimes have no time left to 'know' the route, the sat nav can be delayed or you are just too busy looking 'out'.
If there are red traffic lights I worry that even if I go across correctly something might stop my progress, (999 vehcile etc) and I might get done! I treat these lights with worrying ability - I am not used to them at all, and it is un-nerving.
I would NEVER go through a red light, but how do you know that the red light camera is not mal-functing and will get you .... I know the amber (at worst) should show in any following situation - but it is worrying, and I spend the time going through the light looking at the lights (great for my observation skills), instead of, if any car is running their red light, etc etc ...
I absolutely hate all these distracting cameras. They take my eyes off the road and look UP (even worse), at the lights / camera.
I am losing touch with the road and I really find it most uncomfortable. I like my eyes and brain to be working hard on the road checking - double, triple checking the whole time, not wasting time worrying about cameras that may be lurking behind a bush tree - or a van around the next bend or over the hill. With the best will in the world, a copule of cameras have still caught me by surprise ! I ended up having to brake a bit.
And I (believe) have exceptionally good eyesight, and excellent observation skills, but I cannot simply be looking at everything at once, so to have no sympathy (or little), with the driver, who either goes on a route regularly or is new to the area, (you did not imply this - but there are some that feel this way), is perhaps not understanding the physiology that these horrid cameras rely on.
Even when you know that they are there, with the best will in the world, one day you will 'forget', simply by it's 'regular' appearance, and be momentarily thinking about something else, or distracted by some hazard etc. We are human - we make mistakes.

As they are, so not about safety, but, rely on a paranoid creating culture of mistrust and mistakes, to justify their pointless existence, the poor driver is never going to 'win'.
The aim is that you are 'ground down' to just 'do the limit' everywhere, and slowly believe that it 'works'. This is what they hope you will resort to as they know that you will need to find a way to cope with them, as you need your licence. It is really ugly! I am not sure what this is called in terms of the physiology... perhaps someone here knows....
Your friend they hope you will not show sympathy for, as then he too thinks that he should just 'drive the limit, or lose his licence in the end'.
At this point they think that they are winning, and to a degree they are, as people then drive at the limit. Yes they have slowed people down, BUT are those people driving with interest or paying attention. NO, far from it.
You vaguely go from A to B, in a manner that the lowest common denominator might. (The person that has no interest in driving or care how they get there.)
These drivers cannot tell you who passed them, where any car turned off in front or behind them, who gave them a possible problem or who didn't. The driver just becomes a mechanical machine from A to B, all interest or care is entirely on Auto pilot.

I am NOT trying to 'get at you', just discussing this horrid attitude, that the government is hoping that you will fall into, along with what they hope everyone will end up doing to.

It reminds me of horse training by 'breaking the spirit' of the horse.
You force a control on something and they hate you for it.
You encourage the 'right' methods and you have the 'trainee' leaping for joy at the discovery of success and achievement.

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.