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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 00:12 
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For anyone wondering just what evil depths of offensive, ill-conceived bad taste will be plumbed in the political quest against speeding, this clip from yesterday's South Lakes Citizen sets a new standard:

Image

Is this what the good Mr. Callaghan means when he says they are teaming up with other organisations for "Road Safety Initiatives"? No, surely not even the "SG" would stoop this low?

Imagine, if you will, what effect it might have on the relatives of some accident victim, were they to be handed a white carnation by one of these misguided clowns, whom I assume genuinely believes that this sensationalist crusade is somehow going to get a useful safety message across, rather than just offending and generally pissing off the populace!

I can only hope that in a few years we'll all be looking back on this sort of thing, shaking our heads, and saying "how was this allowed to happen? Thank Heavens we saw sense and started investing in real road safety initiatives before the bloody fools got themselves lynched!"

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Last edited by JT on Fri Mar 04, 2005 00:27, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 00:25 
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As someone who lost someone very near and dear to me as a result of a low-speed collision, I find this very deeply offensive.
These people simply do not know how utterly misguided they are.
There's nothing quite as dangerous as a sincere idiot.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 00:26 
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Yeah, and I bet the damned hearse will be kitted out with VASCAR, APNR, a few hand held lasers and heaven only knows what else!

With road deaths on the increase here, I'm surprised they found a spare hearse to hire!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 00:37 
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There's a definite smell of meltdown in the air.

I think the word is 'delirium' or maybe even 'dementia'.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 00:44 
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JT wrote:
Imagine, if you will, what effect it might have on the relatives of some accident victim, were they to be handed a white carnation by one of these misguided clowns, whom I assume genuinely believes that this sensationalist crusade is somehow going to get a useful safety message across, rather than just offending and generally pissing off the populace!

Imagine indeed. A person such as you describe thought this is exactly what is required and has offered support and help.
Not exactly what you thought eh!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 01:15 
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JJ wrote:
JT wrote:
Imagine, if you will, what effect it might have on the relatives of some accident victim, were they to be handed a white carnation by one of these misguided clowns, whom I assume genuinely believes that this sensationalist crusade is somehow going to get a useful safety message across, rather than just offending and generally pissing off the populace!

Imagine indeed. A person such as you describe thought this is exactly what is required and has offered support and help.
Not exactly what you thought eh!

Actually it doesn't surprise me, but does one swallow make a summer?

Yes, I'm sure that amongst those unfortunate enough to have been tragically bereaved there will be some who believe that they should support such an initiative. However I do find it distasteful how quickly any such support is taken advantage of to promote what is essentially a political agenda. And I'm sure there will also be a substantial percentage who would be deeply offended and upset by this grim imagery - just remember that there is a large group of people who don't believe the propaganda Steve, and I'm sure that this sector will contain bereaved relatives too.

And I'd be pretty ashamed of the timing of this too, when the introduction of this massive clampdown on speeding has just overseen its second consecutive year in which fatalities rose.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 09:46 
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JT wrote:
And I'd be pretty ashamed of the timing of this too, when the introduction of this massive clampdown on speeding has just overseen its second consecutive year in which fatalities rose.

Put it down to those who don't belive, you are slowing the progress, please slow down elsewhere too.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:16 
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JJ wrote:
JT wrote:
And I'd be pretty ashamed of the timing of this too, when the introduction of this massive clampdown on speeding has just overseen its second consecutive year in which fatalities rose.

Put it down to those who don't belive, you are slowing the progress, please slow down elsewhere too.

Those who don't "believe"? Is it just me that finds the evangelical slant on that to be a bit worrying?

Doesn't work as a theory though, does it? You are saying that the sudden reversal of the previous trend in fatalities is caused by people not slowing down away from camera sites? For this theory to hold true they'd actually have to have responded to the presence of the cameras by speeding up elsewhere, which would be something of a pyrrhic victory don't you think.

If, as we are led to believe, the cameras have "caused" a massive drop in accidents at the sites - in the order of 50% plus; and if, as I'm sure we were told, these 49 sites were responsible for 70% plus of all KSIs, then we should be looking at a nett County wide drop of about 35% in casualties attributable to cameras, plus the 5% (ish) we were getting beforehand. So if your claims are to hold water we should have seen about a 40% drop in fatalities each year since you started!

But what we've actually seen is a nett 10% rise. So either the cameras have caused an increase in "non camera site" accidents in the order of 166%. Either that, or there's a whole in your theory somewhere. Which do you think it is?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:35 
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This is totally, but totally inexcusable.
How such emotive, knee-jerk reaction to a serious problem can help in any way is quite beyond the understanding of any rational person.
If the CSCP join in and support this in any way they will be seen as complete buffoons. As in 'welcome to the logic-free world of the Cumbria Cash-Cameras'.
JJ, surely you are not supporting this sensationalist nonsense, are you?
If you, the SG and the rest of the crew at CSCP are, then you really do deserve all the abuse you will undoubtedly get, not only on this forum, but from all right-minded people.
I just hope the ABD and SafeSpeed bring this immediately to attention of the national media.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 14:43 
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JT wrote:
JJ wrote:
JT wrote:
Imagine, if you will, what effect it might have on the relatives of some accident victim, were they to be handed a white carnation by one of these misguided clowns, whom I assume genuinely believes that this sensationalist crusade is somehow going to get a useful safety message across, rather than just offending and generally pissing off the populace!

Imagine indeed. A person such as you describe thought this is exactly what is required and has offered support and help.
Not exactly what you thought eh!

Actually it doesn't surprise me, but does one swallow make a summer?

Yes, I'm sure that amongst those unfortunate enough to have been tragically bereaved there will be some who believe that they should support such an initiative. However I do find it distasteful how quickly any such support is taken advantage of to promote what is essentially a political agenda. And I'm sure there will also be a substantial percentage who would be deeply offended and upset by this grim imagery - just remember that there is a large group of people who don't believe the propaganda Steve, and I'm sure that this sector will contain bereaved relatives too.

And I'd be pretty ashamed of the timing of this too, when the introduction of this massive clampdown on speeding has just overseen its second consecutive year in which fatalities rose.


If you want to bring the Fatal casualtys down then I am afraid people need to me made aware of the reality of the situation. What you see in the Picture is the reality of the situation. Everybody who met Kate in Kendal where highly appreciative. So JT if you do not agree with this type of message what would you do instead?

JJ


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 14:59 
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JJ wrote:
If you want to bring the Fatal casualtys down then I am afraid people need to me made aware of the reality of the situation. What you see in the Picture is the reality of the situation.


<flame mode on>

Reality? Reality?

You dangerous buffoon!

The reality is 32 million drivers and around 1,000 'excessive speed' fatal crashes each year. The overall 'risk value' is one excessive speed fatal in 32,000 driver years.

But worse still is that the majority of those excessive speed fatals do not involve normal responsible motorists exceeding a speed limit.

You're lying to us and it's killing us. You're killing us.

<flame mode complete>

[edited because 'buffoon' was short of an 'f']

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Last edited by SafeSpeed on Fri Mar 04, 2005 15:08, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 15:05 
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JJ wrote:
If you want to bring the Fatal casualtys down then I am afraid people need to me made aware of the reality of the situation. What you see in the Picture is the reality of the situation. Everybody who met Kate in Kendal where highly appreciative. So JT if you do not agree with this type of message what would you do instead?

JJ (or Steve, or whoever you are today!)

I don't believe it is "the reality of the situation", but merely a dangerously over-simplified and misleading message. To put it bluntly, in terms of reducing the demand for hearse usage "Slow Down" just isn't working is it? This isn't delivering a lesson in road safety, just a statement in political correctness.

And I don't doubt that a sector of the population will be slapping you on the back for it - probably the complacent drivers who daydream along at "40 everywhere", paying precious little attention to hazards, but feel suitably smug because they (think they) obey the speed limit.

I think we've already covered at length what we'd "do different". My way ahead would start off at raising driving standards generally via improved driver training and testing, go via educational messages that target the major accident causation issues, and end with enforcement targeted specifically at the most dangerous drivers, rather than people cruising up the M6 at 79mph.

What this campaign does is exactly what CSCP have continually denied they do: it shouts from the rooftops "Obey the speed limit and everything will be all right". At least now you're admitting it!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 16:27 
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Quote:
If you want to bring the Fatal casualtys down then I am afraid people need to me made aware of the reality of the situation.


So JJ, in the context of your above statement. you now are finally admitting that this cannot be achieved with Speed Cameras? (A rhetorical question of course).


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 17:49 
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JJ wrote:
JT wrote:
Imagine, if you will, what effect it might have on the relatives of some accident victim, were they to be handed a white carnation by one of these misguided clowns, whom I assume genuinely believes that this sensationalist crusade is somehow going to get a useful safety message across, rather than just offending and generally pissing off the populace!

Imagine indeed. A person such as you describe thought this is exactly what is required and has offered support and help.
Not exactly what you thought eh!


Oh Yeah :!: Well it just so happens that I'm one of those people, and if one of those misguided clowns tried to hand me a white carnation, I'd tell them in no uncertain terms what to do with it.

Quote:
Put it down to those who don't belive, you are slowing the progress, please slow down elsewhere too.


Progress :?: :?: What progress? More like retrogress.

Quote:
If you want to bring the Fatal casualtys down then I am afraid people need to me made aware of the reality of the situation. What you see in the Picture is the reality of the situation.


You're about a zillion miles away from the reality of the situation.

Speed had absolutely nothing to do with the accident which turned my mother into a vegetable. Inattention had everything to do with it.

What are you doing about that?

Absolutely nothing, from where I stand!

How many more people have to suffer losses like mine while you fiddle around with your beloved scameras?

Quote:
Everybody who met Kate in Kendal where highly appreciative.


And I'll bet that few of them had lost a loved one in a RTA, and concerning those that had, never underestimate the power of propaganda.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 18:07 
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Are we to take it that you fully support this then JJ?
At best you are sadly misguided, at worst a complete buffoon.
Sorry to be so blunt, but I, for one, am deeply offended by this silly, childish, emotive and sensationalist excuse for a road safety campaign. If they had done the same thing with a herse and the words "concentrate whilst driving", which is THE major factor in accidents, I would still strongly object.
This is not acceptable to right-minded people, but then, with the inability of cetain people to understand basic logic, right-mindedness is not a strong point with the CSCP, is it?
This is absolutely disgraceful! Pete317 is right, they know where they can stick their carnations, and I hope it hurts


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 20:50 
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JJ wrote:
JT wrote:
Imagine, if you will, what effect it might have on the relatives of some accident victim, were they to be handed a white carnation by one of these misguided clowns, whom I assume genuinely believes that this sensationalist crusade is somehow going to get a useful safety message across, rather than just offending and generally pissing off the populace!

Imagine indeed. A person such as you describe thought this is exactly what is required and has offered support and help.
Not exactly what you thought eh!


Really? I do not believe this for one moment. My wife's family lost one member in a non-fauilt RTA and I nearly lost Wildy in another. If someone handed me any such flower in Keswick, Kendal or wherever, I can guarantee said flower would have been stuffed in a very appropriate place. Both myself and Wildy would have been very rude if we had been given such a flower or approached in any way.

Probably because my wife and myself would have been spared much anguish had a so-called officer in a Panda decided not to chase a marginal speeder (even then - some fail to use discretion and Wildy herself has already had plenty to say on PH over this! - so it's no secret!).



In fact, I find it as offensive as "Brake" asking me to publish photos of my wife's injuries (which had nothing tp do with any speeding driver and more to do with an inept policeman who failed to stop the offending driver whom he observed swerving - opting to chase a marginal speeder instead :twisted: ) and you expect me to respect your so-called professionalism over sick stunts such as this one?

Might I remind you as well a significant number of my patients are terminal. They would not take very kindly to my giving them a flower to remind them of impending death.

As a campaign - it will not impact and it is not welcomed by people like myself who really know and understand the true nature of trauma!

In blunt terms - Callaghan - and I don't really care if Paul is annoyed with me for saying so - you are a callous OAF!

I think I am more than qualified in both personal and professional terms to pass this judgement on you! It is a fair judgement - I think. You just fail to think things through! You may think your little stunts are harmless and even welcome. I can assure you as a medic dealing with very nasty deaths and traumas and as someone who faced losing someone really loved by all who know her - that this is a very cheap and callous stunt - and will not get any message across. Aware that the Swiss relatives have already told you to focus on what really matters in road safety - COAST, POWER and dangers of drugs, illness and fatigue. Speed is not the only cause of RTC and you simply fail to acknowledge as your sole aim from everything I have observed since your set up convinces me that you are only concerned with retaining a lucrative and well paid NON- JOB!

(ALSO - if you posted as "Chumps! - not forgotten or forgiven what you posted when my youngest was born - think that really shows what kind of person we are really dealing with - in any case!

Sorry folks - but I am really angry over this story! I also dislike hypocrites! Intensely!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 21:19 
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Mad Moggie wrote:
In blunt terms - Callaghan - and I don't really care if Paul is annoyed with me for saying so - you are a callous OAF!


I second that. I also believe he is evil, dangerous and manipulative, as I have said so to him in the past.

Paul - I know we wish to encourage dialogue with camera officials in the name of balance, but I wish to warn everyone that as well as being all of the above, Steve Callaghan has proved to be a very clever man in that he has played us all and used us.

I don't think there is anything to gain and now much to lose from continuing any dialogue with any alleged CSCP individuals except through official channels or with prior authentication of identity.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 23:33 
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Having been to a relative's funeral 2 weeks ago, I too found this stunt offensive.

Strangely enough, from where I'm sitting now, the nearest KSI occurred on the 6th January. A Police officer on an "emergency" call (I use the term with caution) went through a red light, swerved violently but still hit a vehicle and went on to severely damage a barrier.

Lancs Stazi dont need any KSI's to install scameras, so watch this space... :shock:


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:06 
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This stunt looks crass and thoughtless and the question that springs to mind is "what were they thinking?".
I'm sure some will believe it was a good idea, perhaps even amongst those who've lost someone through a road traffic incident - we all handle trauma in different ways after all. But to think it will affect the way people drive...no, no, no.
Idiots.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 17:54 
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Mad Moggie wrote:
JJ wrote:
JT wrote:
Imagine, if you will, what effect it might have on the relatives of some accident victim, were they to be handed a white carnation by one of these misguided clowns, whom I assume genuinely believes that this sensationalist crusade is somehow going to get a useful safety message across, rather than just offending and generally pissing off the populace!

Imagine indeed. A person such as you describe thought this is exactly what is required and has offered support and help.
Not exactly what you thought eh!


Really? I do not believe this for one moment. My wife's family lost one member in a non-fauilt RTA and I nearly lost Wildy in another. If someone handed me any such flower in Keswick, Kendal or wherever, I can guarantee said flower would have been stuffed in a very appropriate place. Both myself and Wildy would have been very rude if we had been given such a flower or approached in any way.

Probably because my wife and myself would have been spared much anguish had a so-called officer in a Panda decided not to chase a marginal speeder (even then - some fail to use discretion and Wildy herself has already had plenty to say on PH over this! - so it's no secret!).



In fact, I find it as offensive as "Brake" asking me to publish photos of my wife's injuries (which had nothing tp do with any speeding driver and more to do with an inept policeman who failed to stop the offending driver whom he observed swerving - opting to chase a marginal speeder instead :twisted: ) and you expect me to respect your so-called professionalism over sick stunts such as this one?

Might I remind you as well a significant number of my patients are terminal. They would not take very kindly to my giving them a flower to remind them of impending death.

As a campaign - it will not impact and it is not welcomed by people like myself who really know and understand the true nature of trauma!

In blunt terms - Callaghan - and I don't really care if Paul is annoyed with me for saying so - you are a callous OAF!

I think I am more than qualified in both personal and professional terms to pass this judgement on you! It is a fair judgement - I think. You just fail to think things through! You may think your little stunts are harmless and even welcome. I can assure you as a medic dealing with very nasty deaths and traumas and as someone who faced losing someone really loved by all who know her - that this is a very cheap and callous stunt - and will not get any message across. Aware that the Swiss relatives have already told you to focus on what really matters in road safety - COAST, POWER and dangers of drugs, illness and fatigue. Speed is not the only cause of RTC and you simply fail to acknowledge as your sole aim from everything I have observed since your set up convinces me that you are only concerned with retaining a lucrative and well paid NON- JOB!

(ALSO - if you posted as "Chumps! - not forgotten or forgiven what you posted when my youngest was born - think that really shows what kind of person we are really dealing with - in any case!

Sorry folks - but I am really angry over this story! I also dislike






hypocrites! Intensely!







I am sorry you did not like the say it with flowers campaign, but for those drivers who can not get through there heads that speeding, and bad driving is killing people, then I am afraid we are going to have use other methods. That campaign is one of them. And unfortunately you are very much in the minority regarding your thoughts on the matter.

JJ


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