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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 14:55 
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Camera Partnership Staff
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CarlP wrote:
Yeah, I've got a massive wedge of stuff here to go through, but no scanner. TBH, there's very little on road safety, and I was amused to see not one of the CSCP guys involved in any of the meetings I now have minutes for!

If anyone wants the dubious honour of scanning these in, I can provide ample hosting to allow other to download. I'll obviously pay any postage.


Note: it was more than likely the scrutiny panel minutes you asked for . this was a panel was set up to verify that the Road safety group are doing things right. I await your comments

JJ


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 15:22 
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JJ wrote:
Note: it was more than likely the scrutiny panel minutes you asked for . this was a panel was set up to verify that the Road safety group are doing things right. I await your comments

That's absolutely not what I asked for, though it may well be what I have! :p

I will be passing this onto someone to scan later on today, all being well.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 09:53 
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Well, everything is online now thanks to the nice people at Cumbria County Council:

Quote:
Dear Mr Prescott

In reply to your e-mail of 28 April 2005.

Thank you for your comments.

We have spoken to the unit who are responsible for uploading the documents and the minutes are now available on our website.

The following links will take you to the relevant committees and then you need to select the date, agenda, item number for the reports.

Environmental Quality & Safety Scrutiny Panel
http://www.cumbria.gov.uk/councilmeetin ... ittee=2942

Strategic Overview and Scrutiny Committee
http://www.cumbria.gov.uk/councilmeetin ... ittee=3026

Cabinet
http://www.cumbria.gov.uk/councilmeetin ... ?Section=2

Yours sincerely

Nicola Howell
Information Manager

Looks like Steve/JJ/Kev was right, I've got scrutiny panel minutes when I wanted the minutes of the actual road safety meeting :/

Ah well, I'm sure another request can sort that, if anyone has any idea what exactly I need to ask for!

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Carl Prescott


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 20:32 
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What you've got is a start - the double speak is an indication that this is a committe, going through the motions, without really achieving much!
Quote:
Road casualty reduction is a strategic priority for Cumbria Constabulary. With
increasing regularity, approximately 50 people die on the roads of Cumbria each
year.

INCREASING REGULARITY, .... ??? That's another way of saying "No matter what we say we're doing, MORE people are dying each year, even though
Quote:
The Council’s Local Public Service Agreement (LPSA), contains an action
related to the reduction of killed and seriously injured (KSI) road casualties.

Maybe they should reword that to say "The Council’s Local Public Service Agreement (LPSA), contains an action
related to the reduction of seriously injured (SI) road casualties, and delete all record of it ever having mentioned KILLED.
Then add that in doing so, the staff of the CSCP expect to earn a few bob for themselves, and the UK Treasury.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 21:29 
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The story so far:

Fatalities in Cumbria 2004 by end of April :15
Fatalities in Cumbria 2005 by end of April :14

Seriously injured in Cumbria 2004 by end of April: 86
Seriously injured in Cumbria 2005 by end of April: 112

Other injured in Cumbria 2004 by end of April: 686
Other injured in Cumbria 2005 by end of April: 594

It's now the start of June - no doubt the figures for May will be out in a months time. Let's hope there's no increase in KSI's in June!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 09:14 
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I hope you're not implying this is CSCP's fault, you should know they're only responsible for the drops, not the rises.

How many more have to die before this scheme's written off as a complete waste of time, I wonder?

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Carl Prescott


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 09:36 
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Location: Earith, Cambs
But the cameras are working.
The Speedfinder-General has told us so.
JJ has told us so.
Kevin has told us so.
Yes, casualties are up, unfortunately, but the cameras are working.
They have regression to the mean at the camera sites, so the cameras must be working.
They are addressing 5% of all accidents, so the cameras must be working.
The cameras are raising lots of cash! Ah, now that's how they are working.
The S-G, JJ and Kevin are getting their pay cheques every month. The cameras really are working.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:19 
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Cooperman wrote:
The S-G, JJ and Kevin are getting their pay cheques every month. The cameras really are working.


Sadly, the simple logic of this conflict of interest still seems to be lost on too many people.

Maybe the people behind the Egg credit card campaign (you know - the ones featuring the Dutch Lottery scam guys, dodgy back-street garage con-man and the telesales 'fat reducing' compound seller) should come up with a new ad, featuring Kevin, Steve and JJ trumpeting to the world how successful they are at saving lives with their partnership, while raking in the fines...

:twisted:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 19:08 
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CarlP wrote:
I hope you're not implying this is CSCP's fault, you should know they're only responsible for the drops, not the rises.

How many more have to die before this scheme's written off as a complete waste of time, I wonder?
At this stage of the year, I would'nt imply anything. However when deaths rose, Steve trumpeted the fact that serious injuries had fallen, but whichever way he cuts the cake, it doesnt look good. KSI's UP from 101 to 126.

Anyone have access to the internet during the day? You might care to listen to Radio Cumbria ONLINE tomorrow lunchtime. :roll:
Go to http://www.bbc.co.uk/england/radiocumbria/index.shtml and click the listen online button, then the link in the new window that appears. The presenter is Martin Plenderleith.

I wonder if there is anything in the fact that submariners rarely rely on one torpedo, but prefer to fire a spread!! :speakno:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 08:35 
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In response to my prompting the Radio Cumbria presenter with the rise in figures from 2004 to 2005, Kevin said it was wrong to jump to conclusions on the basis of just 4 months figures.

Shame he did'nt tell Steve that last year, when he trumpeted the "improvement" they had made in the same period!!!!!!! :twisted:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 21:20 
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Just released in Cumbria today....http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/4248812.stm

It came with a condemnation of the number of KSI accidents caused by or involving drunk drivers!
Quote:
The number of people caught drink driving in Cumbria has risen sharply.
The latest police figures reveal that 170 drivers were arrested in July and August, compared to 111 the previous two months - a rise of almost 35%.

A Cumbria Police spokesman said the reason for the rise was not known, but officers were determined to get tough on offenders.

Those caught over the limit are being warned they face losing their licence or going to prison.


How come they stop and arrest DRUNK drivers, yet CSCP get away with sending out a picture, and calling themselves SAFETY CAMERAS???

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 22:02 
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Quote:
A Cumbria Police spokesman said the reason for the rise was not known, but officers were determined to get tough on offenders.

could it possibly be because they're targetting DUI that they're catching more offenders, or did that thought not enter their minds?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:24 
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Applying simple logic, one would say that KSI's had been dropping year-on-year over a long period, but that this trend has flattened out since speed cameras were introduced. This, it is believed, co-incided with a reduction in manned police patrols, as the perception was that the cameras would 'do the trick'.
The sensible approach would be to revert to the pre camera situation and see what happened. If KSI's stayed the same or reduced, then the reversion to more manned police patrols would be seen to be the way forward and this could be combined with better driver education. Of course that won't happen and the action will be, the medicine's not working - increase the doseage!
It's interesting to learn that drink driving is seen as a major factor, not breaking the speed limits. But convictions for drink-driving have decreased in the UK due to reductions in police patrols, not because there is less drink-driving. In fact, you are likely to get away with drink-driving so long as you stay below the speed limit.
You couldn't make it up, could you. The entire system is now crazy with this almost obscene focus on speeding and the consequent down-grading of other causes of accidents in the mind of Mr. Average.
That's what you've achieved,Mr. Callaghan. We hope you are ashamed of yourself. Now go and count your salary.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:31 
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Do you think it would take long to count?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 13:21 
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Since it is salary for a 'non-job', it should be zero, whicjh would take no time to count at all.
However, in this society, where 'non-jobs' are all around, I should think he is paid a 'nice little earner'.
How can anyone bring themselves to do such non-jobs, have they no pride or moral scruples - one supposes not.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 15:55 
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I saw an ad for a SCP manager somewhere recently...maybe on here actually, I think it was about £30k pa.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 16:24 
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Just goes to show... you pay peanuts, you get monkeys :wink:

Cheers
Peter

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 17:37 
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civil engineer wrote:
I saw an ad for a SCP manager somewhere recently...maybe on here actually, I think it was about £30k pa.

Anyone tempted to apply and blow a few whistles in six months time? :twisted: Well, they like to lurk unnoticed in petrolhead forums and clobber people who mention they've done the point-swapping trick... it'd be nice to return the favour. :twisted: :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:44 
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Location: Earith, Cambs
Is the incidence of 'points sharing' on the increase?
Surely it must be, especially in a family situation in which the husband/father is a high-mileage driver who drives on business a lot and the wife is at home most of the time with the children.
No doubt the Speedfinder-General Callaghan will be along in a minute to tell what a really serious crime this is, but the risks are very low, especially if the vehicle is registered to the wife. With a Gatso there is little or no risk anyway.
Remember, the police/authorities can't or don't even keep track of serious criminals who have removed their electronic tags and who then go out and murder someone (see today's news), they only find them after the murder and then that takes some time!
What would make a Pratnership actually check the photo to see if a man or a woman were driving? There would need to some suspicion in the first place and the registered keeper responding to an NiP would be unlikely to rouse suspicion. After all, all they want is the £60, anything else is a distraction to their cash collection.
Don't think I'm advocation this, just making an observation using a bit of logic. Oh, logic, something the Pratnerships are not too good at.
IMHO the guy who confessed after being attacked after Pistonheads (I think) website had posted his 'confession' should have denied it and 'toughed it out'. There was no other evidence apart from his post and he could have denied everything, saying it was a bit of 'bravado' on his part there. Was it admissable as evidence anyway? Perhaps Ian or Stephen coud give us their opinion, if they feel able too without compromising themselves.
A police officer friend of mine has already tolds me how to be completely free from any camera-detected convictions just by using a quite legal process of identity change. It's very simple, but does cost a little in time and effort plus the establishment of an accommodation address abroad. I'll say no more about this on here.


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