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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 03:38 
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http://www.crsp.co.uk/accident_summary.asp

The 2010 ACCIDENT figures shown here look a lot better than the fatal statistics over on the CSCP website!

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 01:33 
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Once again, the recording of accident statistics is proving troublesome for the CSCP.

According to their figures for March, there was just ONE fatality, yet the Police were reporting in various media today (including this report from the Westmorland Gazette) that there were at least TWO fatalities in March involving motorcyclists!

http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/news/8996265.Bikers_warned_after_spate_of_deaths_in_Cumbria/

The Westmorland Gazette wrote:
Bikers warned after spate of deaths in Cumbria

BIKERS have been warned to be careful this May Day by Cumbria Police following six deaths of motorcyclists in the county since the end of February.

The list of casualties includes: Stephen Gray, 43, from Lemon St in South Shields. He died on Monday, April 25 after his motorcycle collided with a dry stone wall on the A686 between Alston and Hartside summit.

Lee Matthews, 41. Died on Friday April 22 when his motorcycle crashed into a wall on Ferry Road in Barrow.

Andrew Mitchell, 44, from Blackpool. Died on Saturday, April 9 after his motorcycle collided with a car near Kirk Bridge, Garsdale.

Kenneth Hardy, 72, from Windermere. Died on Monday March 21 after his Harley Davidson crashed into a car on the A591 near Plantation Bridge. He left behind his wife, two sons and three grandchildren.

John Tweddell, 44, from Morecambe. Died on Sunday, March 6 when his motorcycle collided with a car on the A683 between Sedbergh and Middleton. He leaves behind his wife, parents and two sisters.

Jordan Peck, 17, from Keswick. Died on Monday, February 28 after his motorcycle collided with a car near Dovenby, Cockermouth.

Sergeant Jo Lennox is a police motorcyclist in Cumbria’s roads policing unit, and manages the county’s Bikesafe scheme, which provides education to motorcyclists to reduce the number of people killed and seriously injured on the region’s roads.

She said: “My officers and I will be out and about throughout Cumbria this weekend, keeping an eye on motorists behaviour and we want to enjoy the weekend without being called to a serious collision, and without having to be the ones to break the news to another grieving family."

One can forgive them not recording another fatality on March 22nd, as the elderly woman died two weeks later in April - still within the 30 day time frame which will eventually see the death recorded as yet another March fatality. :(

News and Star wrote:
Woman dies two weeks after Lake District crash

Last updated at 13:27, Monday, 11 April 2011

A pensioner has died in hospital more than two weeks after she was injured in a crash near Keswick.

Maureen Elwell, 76, of Lakeland View, Nethertown, near Egremont, was a front seat passenger in a black Kia Sportage, which collided with a stone wall at St John's in the Vale.
She was taken to the Royal Victoria Infirmary in Newcastle, where she died on Thursday.
The driver, a 63-year-old woman from Egremont, suffered minor injuries.

Officers are still investigating the cause of the collision - which took place at 6.45pm on March 22 - and have renewed their appeal for witnesses.


MEANWHILE, it is not just the CSCP who are having difficulties, Safer Roads for Cumbria's web page for accident stats, reduces the figures to just KSIs, and has EIGHT for March, while the CSCP stats have TEN serious injury victims and the ONE fatal recorded so far.

Just what is going on with these two organisations, who seem unable to get the statistics on which they base so much of their evidence for their various campaigns on? :shock:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 17:57 
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In fact, they could be acussed of talking a load of "greenshed".... :lol:

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 01:43 
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Safer Roads for Cumbria have responded to my prompting, and updated their March figures.

KSIs now stand at 14 instead of just 8... well at least they do on the Safer Roads for Cumbria site!

One hopes that sooner or later the CSCP will catch up - or resign from the game!

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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 12:54 
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The plot thickens.

Safer Roads now have 63 KSIs while CSCP have 63 serious injured, and 11 fatalities so far in 2011.

Perhaps one is cribbing from the other and misrepresenting the stats - either way, it does not look very professional!

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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 05:36 
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I am new to this site and as the widow of one of the motorcyclists killed in March feel I must comment on how fixated you appear to be with getting statistics right - what you seem to forget is that somebody has died in these accidents and in my case my husband was not speeding - his accident happened whilst he was travelling between 30-33mph and it would appear the road conditions were to blame - we will not know definately until the inquest.

Accidents especially ones involving bikes are not always about speed, so maybe it should be more appropiate to have a 'Safe Road' forum which would show speeding accidents,unsafe road accidents and accidents caused by car drivers and then get the statistics correct as these appear to matter so much. The other suggestion is that maybe the councils involved actually repair the roads and not use the excuse of 'no money' - on the road where John died they have repaired the fence since his death but left the road - maybe for someone else to die, only time will tell?


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 08:50 
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Workshard - I am sorry if you feel distressed or offended by the discussion here. :(

In my youth I rode a motorcycle, and my brother was nearly killed on one - by a driver overtaking approaching a blind bend - so I am more than aware that motorcyclists are not always the agents of their own misfortune. My brother was off work for over a year, and still carries the results of one drivers carelessness.

This thread is intended as a criticism of the money wasted by the pointless producing of statistics by two separate Cumbria County Council sponsored bodies - one of which claims to be reducing accidents by prosecuting speeding.

The money poured into THAT organisation should in my opinion be spent on measures that address the far wider range of causes - one of which you have highlighted because of your unfortunate experience.

The DfT stats 19 figures show that speeding in excess of the posted limit accounts for 5% - 7% of accident causes, and yet "Safety" Camera Partnerships have been sucking up the lions share of road safety spending, on the back of statistics THEY produce, and misrepresent to their various councils.
Elsewhere, I have highlighted the numbers of people killed or injured at low speeds - including the tragic deaths that occur on peoples driveways. :( In the past, the DfT claimed 33% of accidents were due to speeding - and it has taken them years to back away from that early error on their part.

You may have read of councils around the UK that have withdrawn funding for their speed camera partnerships, and invested their road safety grant from the government in road improvements of the type you advocate.

Swindon was the first to do this, but others have followed suit BECAUSE their budgets have been cut elsewhere.
Cumbria unfortunately has stuck it's head in the sand, and stuck obstinately to funding speed cameras on the flimsy excuse that people have died on X stretch of road - without linking those awful statistics to a cause. :(

I hope you realise that in order to make a change, the councillors in charge of the funding have to be made aware of their own short sightedness, and to look at the case for speed cameras, AND the fact that they are funding BOTH these bodies, whose statistics don't even compare to each other.

If you click on my profile, you should find enough information to contact me - unlike the former head of the Cumbria Safety Camera Partnership who posts here under an alias (or two - possibly out of embarrassment at his part - but I doubt it) - as he continues to promote prosecuting speeding as the only way to reduce accidents!
His statistics ignore the effort of motor manufacturers to install better in car safety features, and of the paramedic service improvements that save more lives at the road side, and instead claims all the improvements in statistics were due to speed cameras!

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 03:05 
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:welcome: Workshard
Workshard wrote:
I am new to this site and as the widow of one of the motorcyclists killed in March feel I must comment on how fixated you appear to be with getting statistics right - what you seem to forget is that somebody has died in these accidents and in my case my husband was not speeding - ....
I am so sorry for your loss.

I think Earnest Marsh has summed up well, how these two specific organisations have curious specific numeric errors between them, such that I will not repeat it.

I will add that it is because Safe Speed thoroughly understands that road safety is not measured in miles per hour, but by all road users who manage risk well and give good judgement, and accompanied by proper and intelligent Road Safety Policies that we can achieve safer roads.
It is the causes of incidents that need to be thoroughly understood to ensure that proper research is commissioned to enable better road safety policies. By understanding statistics (and the 'trends'), helps us to better appreciate the causes of incidents.
I can totally appreciate that this may seem very impersonal and harsh, but we cannot base road safety on emotions, but through sound engineering and science to ensure that the best solutions possible are sought for the greatest good.

The website tries to show many, many points about road safety, which is as you may appreciate is very involved.

We recognise the pointlessness of the (mostly) technical offence of 'speeding', when trying to prevent accidents, that (we know from statistics) mostly occur from frustration or (some form of) inattention. Since there is never a time to travel at an inappropriate speed (for conditions) it is ensuring that good education, road engineering and proportionate and appropriate enforcement is crucial to proper and intelligent road safety. Through the massive over use of cameras and the concentration of speed and speed limits, this balance has been completely thrown totally, and we have much to do now to re-dress this grave error.

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