Safe Speed Forums

I get bored driving slowly, generally speaking.

The only exception to this is when I'm driving the Ford and using the trip computer to minimise my fuel economy. I keep concentration very well then, as I have something to think about, although I admit this is probably quite dangerous as it's a dashboard display I'm concentrating on.

I once tried to drive slowly for a long way in the Rover and I got so unbelievably bored I started to notice that songs on the stereo had come and gone and I had no recollection of them.


Basically we're all different. If you can concentrate on anything you want - great.

Some of us are perfectly safe and competant providing we set a few parameters ourselves.

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(I don't think I've said that before to you)

It's a good idea / question - and one which we need to examine.

I only have an anecdotal counter, but it might be possible to logically establish a principle from there...

I know from my own experience that there's a good correlation between 'safe speed' (appropiate for hazards and conditions) and 'comfortable speed (neither boring nor excessively, er, exciting).

I propose that in any 'well adjusted driver' it would be reasonable to assume that he will feel anxious at unsafe high speeds and bored when driving unecessarily slowly.

The questions then become:

- what proportion of drivers AREN'T well adjusted? (Imagine very nervous types who will drive very slowly, or thrill seeker types who may drive like loonies irrespective of risk.) Think: 'risk thermostat' - wrong setting)

- what about the proportion of (mostly inexperienced) drivers who don't even see the risks (possibly until it's too late). Think: 'risk thermostat' - not responding/disconnected

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Thank you, pleased to be here

So would the idea be that a little risk is what keeps us awake? That would lead back to driver training/ability and the need to close the gap between perceived and actual risk. Though what the risk entails could also be relevant. There is the risk of accident, the risk of upsetting ones passengers or the risk of being caught speeding for instance.

The latter would imply that speed cameras could actually help keep us awake.

I know that I do get bored cruising at a low speed. If I speed up in my car for a long period of time, do I get accustomed to that new speed and so it doesn't become interesting?

If I speed up a bit when I'm on my bike, I get buffeted a bit more and that tends to wake me up!

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

I think there's a risk (!) of getting the analysis wrong if we think in terms of 'risk'. I'd guess that it would work properly is we use a strict scientific definition of 'risk', but public definitions are quite wildly variable.

The following Safe Speed page should be helpful in getting to grips with some of the issues: http://www.safespeed.org.uk/arousal.html

I also believe that the essence of driving (let alone safe driving) is one long continuous risk management task. We have to observe hazards continuously, assess them and neutralise them if we are to drive anywhere at all. There is no option and no alternative.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I don't think that the 'element of risk' is what keeps me alert more the fact that everyone has an inherrent or aquired ability etc if you are operating at a level below your optimum level of stimulus you get bored and sloppy, at a level above you get overloaded and crash!

Look at formula 1 racing drivers (probably not the best analogy for those who would have us all tarred with the speed demon brush) How many times do you see the leading driver spin off or do something daft when all they have to do is gently drive the final 10 laps to the finish line.

Or if you want a football analogy look at the teams who top the league all through the season only to slip up when they assume they're going to win the title.

I don't think the artificially applied stimulus of adherring to an arbitary limit is the answer. That just brings fatigue beacuse your enforcing an unnatural behaviour.

If the 'risk' is zero, do you have anything to do?

[this is the problem I was warning about regards the definition of risk.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Fair point,

I was avoiding the work risk as to say you mean it plays into the hands of those who would brand us adrenalin junkies!

I would sooner use the word stimulus.

I am not sure that the risk is ever zero. As you all know it is risk versus hazard we are talking about anyway.

Anecdote mode

My sister hit a deer a few years ago and though the car was written off she was only a bit shaken by the experience. The deer literally jumped out from behind a hedge directly in front of the car.

The road is near my parents home in East Yorkshire, there are signs warning of deer however neither myself nor anyone I know had ever seen a deer on the road. The road is NSL and everyone, except caravaners, treats it as such.

In this case though the hazard is high the risk is very low, so low that most drivers probably do not even think of it. As I said above when you drive the risk is never zero.

Back on the topic...

The speed limit on an empty motorway is often much lower than the maximum safe speed. Apart from legal considerations I think drivers select a speed based on comfort, fuel consumption and a level of concentration which the feel they can sustain for a long period. As we know from this site motorways are statistically very safe. My point is that there are always going to be driving conditions that we as drivers feel, rightly or wrongly, do not merit full concentration.

The root problem is not the speed limits, they are just a symptom or reaction to the current standard of driving skills. I accept that they may reinforce each other, however increasing the limits will not fix this only improvement in drivers can.

I feel our focus should be on demanding a system which promotes driving skills rather than complaining about one that negates them. I hope you all agree as it seems to be the whole point of Paul's campaign.

I think that mosern cars are too "safe" i.e. at anything up to the national speed limit and well beyond they are too easy to drive, quiet, with good brakes and steering, full of air bags etc. This encourages boredom and inattention on long journeys and consequently accidents.
I recently completed a journey from Inverness to Gretna in my 1970 Cortina 1600E and never came near to exceeding a speed limit once, because, although it has a capbilty of 100mph+ performance, at 70mph it is frankly uncomfortable to drive for long periods, and you have to DRIVE the car, not just sit in it and steer it!
I am not suggesting we all drive cars from the 60's or 70's, but I suspect that many younger drivers having learned to drive in modern quiet smooth, good handling, safety zoned cars do not have the ability to actually DRIVE a car.

I think a large proportion of drivers have no real interest in driving other than as a means to an end i.e getting from A to B.

A work colleague of my wife's currently drives a mini-mpv and and freely admits to being a bad driver. So she wants to buy a 4x4 to feel safer

Is there really any hope when safety is linked to the vehicle rather than driver?

SE - Think that this applies to a lot more than driving. As some might have gathered, i am a certified controller of site safety on the railways - i risk assess - look at the hazards and make up a safe system - we find that when blokes ( we don't get many females on track) are working in an area of maximum risk , we have to do little to ensure that they lookout with regards to safety .
In an area of little percieved risk, we have to spend time ensuring that they are aware of risks ( trains on nearby open lines etc) and often have to spend a lot more time ensuring that safety concerns are met than in the supposedly most hazards situations. The monitoring persons have to be more alert - as there is a tendancy to switch off in this sort of situation.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

And probably says so with a silly laugh in her voice and no sense of shame

I see you have met her then - or a clone

Maybe we should take some responsibility and gently urge these people towards some training. The problem is that these people do not like driving very much and the idea of doing a skid pan session or advanced driving courses terrifies them. Are there any courses run by women instructors? Would that help?

I am not saying only women are bad drivers just that maybe a different approach is needed to encourage them.

Theres no doubt that I driver faster in my TT than I do in my wife's polo its mainly to do with comfort, noise, ride etc etc.

But I don't think I'm driving any safer in the polo although I certainly prefer my car for longer journeys.

My emboldening. Well, exactly. We always have work to do as drivers because risk is never zero.



Yes, with the proviso that present policy must be proved to be 'wrong' before we can reasonably expect replacement policies.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

The government guidelines on speed limits take this into account. Limits are supposed to be based on the 85th percentile speed (the speed which 85% of drivers whould drive at or below) which, based on scientific research, strikes the optimum balance between accidents due to speed and accidents due to inattention.

Unfortunately, local authorities are ignoring these guidelines and setting lower limits on the false assumption that simply lowering speeds reduces accidents (and increases revenue!).