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I dont think this is car snobbery, just a (possibly subconcious) reflection of the fact that certain types of people will grivatate towards certain types of car.

Micras and Corsas will appeal to people who generaly stay local and have no interest in making progress (ignoring that 2 seater mid-engined Micra that Nissan do)
Imprezas and Evos often appeal to twats. If you think this is unfair then spend a few days here and see for yourself.
Clios are more interesting, they either appeal to the Micra type, or the chav. I guess both types will not know or care how to drive properly in the wet.

I used to think that Volvos were outside lane hoggers. No. They *were* outside lane hoggers. (70s and 80s) I am pleased to say that I no longer observe this trait.

I must be a Micra type...

when the Impreza first came to these shores it was a pukka enthusiasts car, and I wanted one. Now it's the knob heads weapon of choice.

Examples of my car often can be seen parked outside retirement homes or bowls clubs and very often at the front of very long queues of traffic. When I bought mine, the average age for Honda Civic drivers plumetted at a stroke. Still haven't found a use for the pension book holder and walking stick stand though

Not necessarilly. Just because a car appeals to a certain demographic, doesn't mean that everyone who buys that car fits that demographic.

It's all about probability though, if a car does appeal strongly to a certain group, and that group drives in a certain way, then that car is more likely to be driven in that way. This is as true of chav cars as it is old persons cars or vacuous-20-something-blonde-on-cellphone cars or any other group of drivers you care to single out.

While that may be partially true, a lot of the really stupid comments come from schoolkids that cannot even drive let alone afford the insurance. I would still argue that the vast majority of owners of high-performance Imprezas and Evos are enthusiast drivers with very high driving standards, and I have yet to see one on the road being driven badly.

Yes I know about Jamie's accident, but we established that it wasn't a high-performance version, and was being driven by a 50 year old farmer type.

I said "appeals to twats" not "all imprezas are driven by twats"

The early "classic" Imprezas can be had for buttons these days and they are falling into the hands of chavs these days (hell the local Tesco car park "cruise" here consists of a few saxos, 306s, novas and one blue Impreza with gold alloys). I have seen plenty of them being driven badly by kids and plenty of them being driven badly by sales reps who have no idea what they actually own.

Yes there are still plenty of Subaru enthusiasts who are good drivers and look after their cars, but I am seeing a lot of them give up as the new chav contingent pushes their insurance up even higher and gives them a bad name. This is why I got a Legacy and not an Impreza.

Could this be said of most high performace cars. There will always be a few chaved up versions of most high performace cars, espcailly the jap ones. I suppose I am lucky most chavs go for fiats and have never heard of alfa

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Yes, but few chavs get their hands on Ferraris, I don't think many get their hands on Skylines even if the chav appeal is higher. You also need to draw the destinction between a chavved up car and a ricer, though admittedly that is a very blurry line. The ricer is usually a better driver though.

The point is, there are certain cars that do fall into the hands of chavs in large numbers, eg the Impreza, and this then alters other driver's perceptions of that car. Other cars that are similar on paper do not have this problem (eg. my Legacy B4).

There are also plenty of jap performance cars that are cheap and fall into the hands of chavs then are very quickly written off, so most of the ones you see working are generally driven by good drivers. The Nissan 200SX is a classic example of this one. Whenever a 17yr old pops up on SXOC and posts an introduction thread, some regulars like to reply with first dibs on various engine/drivetrain/suspension components for when the car is crashed.

I am sure, simply because you are on this forum, that you drive your Impreza in a careful and considerate manner (except possibly when on completely empty country lanes ) and that you are not one of the idiots I am talking about, just trying to explain that the unwashed masses will percieve you as one simply because of the car you drive (doubly so if it's blue with gold alloys) and treat you accordingly. Same as with BMWs really.

I assume no responsibility for the opinions in this post:

My brother used to work for Suzuki and went to Japan once on a business trip.

He was walking down a Tokyo street with a Japanese colleague talking cars, when a rather modified Nissan Skyline went hurtling past. The Japanese guy said (got to imagine this in heavily accented Engrish), "So, what do you think of Skylines?"
My brother thought for a moment of a diplomatic form of words, and said, "Well, theyre great cars, but they tend to be driven by a certain kind of bloke in the UK, who's usually made all his money quite quickly in some kind of trade, and spent it on a Skyline which he drives like a white van.."
The Jap exclaimed "Ah! W@nkers! Yes, it's the same over here!

When you drive 20,000 miles a year, you do start to "profile" different cars and can guess pretty accurately what type of person is driving them, e.g.

Nissan Micra = 9.9999 times out of 10 are piloted by elderly women. Look for the tell-tale blue hair. Drive excessively slowly, and stop at roundabouts etc. without reason. Keep back, give them plenty of room, stay patient and be on the lookout for the first safe overtaking opportunity. Most of all, STAY CALM and don't give in to the frustration. Once they are behind you, you can forget that they exist.

Rover 400 = as Nissan Micra, but drivers are usually male. Same precautions apply, but these tend to weave all over the road a bit less.

Ford Ka, Ford Fiesta, Peugeot 106 (non-GTi) = Driven mainly by very young (and usually good-looking) women. They are easily intimidated, so keep your distance and don't do anything aggessive that might provoke a panic response. Give them plenty of warning with the indicator when you do decide to overtake. Not too bad on the speed front, so it's no big deal to just stay behind them if you have to.

Peugeot 206CC, 307CC, Toyota Celica, VW Polo = Driven by the above women when they get to 30 and their insurance premiums come down. Generally driven very well. Experienced lady drivers are some of the safest drivers on the road (until they get old and start driving Micras)

Citroen Saxo, Vauxhall Nova = 9 times out of 10 driven by boy racers. All enthusiasm & no skill. Their girlfriends probably complain of the same thing.

Subaru Impreza, Mitsubishi Evo = I have never seen one driven by a girl, ever. Age varies. Generally the newer the car, the older the driver. Guys don't buy Imprezas & Evos to drive slowly. If they want to get past you, let them pass.

Yes, chavs do own Imprezas (usually early-model Jap imports), but they hardly ever drive them because they can't afford the petrol! LOL! Imprezas GUZZLE fuel and their dole cheque doesn't buy enough 98RON to get 'em off the estate!

Porsche 911 = Drivers almost always male and middle-aged. Lane 1 dwellers on the motorway. It is very rare to see a 911 driven fast on the road.

TVR (all) = As Porsche 911, but drivers tend to be a bit more enthusiastic.

BMW M3 (E46) = Driven by male Company directors in their late 30s, early 40s. Like the Porsche 911, you rarely see one being caned.

Audi RS4/RS6 = It is very rare to see one of these NOT being caned. Even if your car is pretty powerful, just get out of its way. Try to keep up and the driver will just laugh at you.

Porsche Boxter = Despite the car's reputation as "girly" and "hairdresser", most Boxters are driven by guys. Live in lane 3 of the motorway and are usually driven pretty well.

Audi TT Coupe = Male 30-something IT/Business Consultants mainly. Female 30-something IT/Business Consultants go for the roadster version instead. These cars are nowhere near as quick as they look, even when driven hard. Nothing to fear here.

Audi A4 TDi = Has surplanted the Vectra & Mondeo as the stereotypical male sales rep's car. Constantly Pedal to the metal in Lane 3 of the motorway. Characteristic blue Xenon lights are your cue to get out of the way.

BMW 5-series = Sales managers. Are never in a rush, as they have a team of sales reps (in Audi A4 TDis) doing all the rushing around for them.

Other cars defy stereotyping and can be driven by pretty much anyone, such as the Vauxhall Corsa & Astra, VW Golf, Ford Focus, Renault Clio, Saabs and most people carriers.

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“For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.” - H. L. Mencken

Broadly agree, though would argue that the 225 TT's 0-60 time of ~6.5 seconds classes as quick by any measure. I think it's the way they're driven...once had a look at a TT forum and the general mood of the male posters was "we don't buy TT's to go fast, we buy them to impress women"

To your long list, I would add:

VW Passat TDi's: Almost always driven sensibly by professional 30-50 males, but seem to have a dormant competitive tendency, ie will speed up when someone faster catches them up. This sudden speeding up indicated by telltale TDi smoke as they floor it. This also applies to lone males driving mini MPV's but this does not apply to all mini MPV's as these defy driver categorisation.

Old Mitsubishi/other Jap/Vauxhall 4x4: Driven slowly out of town, fast in town, never indicate and have propensity for road rage. Usually driven by someone that looks like they live in the caravan that may or may not be attached to the back. Up to nine children in the back.

Freelander/new Jap 4x4 (esp land Cruiser/Honda): Driven erratically by 30-50 lady peering over the top of steering wheel, with extreme fear of getting wheels dirty by giving way in country lanes. No reverse gear. Back seat occupied by single child seat the size of most small cars.

Maybe I live in a weird area, but we do have a well respected main dealer only a few miles away and Subaru UK is based less than 10 away, which may slew things slightly. About a third of the Imprezas I see are driven by women, but I do think that most have just borrowed hubbies car, as they don't wave. All the enthusiast drivers will wave to other Imprezas, with some overspill to other Subaru owners - I ended up having a nice conversation with a guy in the local Morrisons car park a few weeks ago when I parked next to his old Legacy estate. Don't get that with Rovers, Vauxhalls or Fords do you? Mrs Rewolf would drive mine all the time if she could, and she waves, but she "gets it", and mini Rewolf (16 months) is showing signs of appreciation with giggles at the push in the back moment, imitating the exhaust note when the car is started (she doesn't do this in other cars) and gripping her (very annoying) electronic steering wheel toy.

Mine is WR Blue (yep that colour), but has the low spoiler and gunmetal wheels (well more mud up the sides and brake dust coloured wheels at the front, if I am honest), and it can do 30mpg (just about) if the driver is in the right mood. Or a lot less if out on the country roads.

I think that the chavs in our area must be too poor to be seen with an Impreza, as the few that we do have drive Saxos or Clios, although there is one very odd little van which might have been a Clio Van (or similar) at some point in the past, but now has no badges and has instead gained very low profile alloys, a serious body kit (including an impreza intercooler scoop), and a dustbin pipe.

I think we've gotten most of the cars covered.

There's a few that I am particularly wary of on the few times I encounter them.

Mazda Bongo Friendee - Usually driven by an insane middle aged man with Father Jack hair - Avoid! This person has bade a conscious decision to seek out and purchase a rare 280bhp people carrier.

Older diesel Passats - See Rover 400 (at least that's how I get treated in mine)

Citroen Berlingo van - The exception to the while van man rule. Expect it to be driven like a middle lane moron, then to pull in front of you without looking while you are overtaking at 70. Do not expect it to accelerate under any circumstances (though I am told they are perfectly capable of doing so)

Porsche 911 Turbo - I disagree on this one. Yes they will be driven by fat middle aged company directors. They usually seem to want to drag race on the motorways and dual carriageways (and the last one I encountered got very upset when the Legacy keept up with it up to 70ish in Milton Keynes, canned it up to 100 then nearly took out a roundabout - I wasn't even trying to race him, just wanted to be in MK for as little time as possible) they are often quite ineptly driven on urban/industrual roads.

Nissan 300ZX - Mr. T probably owns one of these.

And I disagree on the Corsa too. You just need to look at the driver and can easilly tell if it's a spotty little oik, or an elderly lady and treat accordingly.

My experience was the opposite as I laughed at the RS4 trying to keep up with my bike on the M6 Toll

There are a few SCP's in the country who would dispute that TT's aren't bought to drive fast!

I get waves quite a lot from other Cougar owners


Unfortunately I have now turned into a homosexual hairdresser. (Yes soem are hetrosexual but they are the female ones ).......... we've just traded the Cougar for an MX-5.


Hell I've got no image worth protecting anyway

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The 225 & V6 ones are reasonably quick, but these are vastly outnumbered by the lower-powered 150s & 180s.



When you work in the male-dominated IT industry, you need every advantage you can get! LOL



But Corsas are also:
- The weapon of choice for low-income single mums in their 20s/30s
- Entry-level company cars (OK, so spotty little oiks with jobs, then! LOL)
- Widely used as hire cars (ditto for the Ford Focus)

So can pretty much be driven by ANYONE!


Here's some more:

Toyota Avensis (old shape), Vauxhall Vectra (old shape) - Most seem to be in service as taxis. Drivers almost always Asian men in their 40s. Taxi drivers have a driving style all their own - generally OK, but occasionally do something crazy without warning. Edge forward well over the line at traffic lights, but the desire to save fuel and maximise profits makes them accelerate away painfully slowly. Sticking behind them round town is a good idea, as they know off-by-heart where all the speed cameras are.

Honda Accord (old shape) - As Rover 400.

BMW X5 - a 50/50 mixture of fat company directors (road hogs) and wealthy, middle-class married women (scourge of the school run). Either way, don't expect one to let you out of a side turning...

Land Rover Discovery, Land Rover Defender - Farmers. Never seem to be in a hurry. Tend to stay in lane 2 on the motorway no matter what.

Range Rover HSE Sport - Weapon of choice for the upper classes and big-time drug dealers. Usually driven fairly aggressively. It's always a good idea to give these a wide berth.


Apologies to ANYONE who owns one of these cars, by the way. Remember, there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule.

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“For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.” - H. L. Mencken

Lol the owner of my company's had two, and he's no stranger to a fish supper....

Another couple that defy description are Focuses and Astras.

I started thinking aloud about what the way people decorate/modify their cars means (eg "Baby on Board" stickers) in 'general chat' on a similar theme.

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