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 Post subject: Rear fog lights
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 20:36 
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One of my pet hates is the incorrect use of rear fog lights on cars.

It was really brought to my attention last night when a car joined an unlit motorway in perfect visibility and promptly popped on the rear fogs. After traveling a few miles on the unlit section we entered a lit section and the fogs went off. It wasnt a simple lapse of memory or accidental switch it was a conscious and bad decision.

Got me thinking...

Have fog lights disabled over a set speed (say 40 mph) or even have a warning buzzer sound at this threshold when the fogs are on. My reasoning is that they should only be used when visibility is seriously reduced and therefore so should your speed.

Obviously it isnt going to stop people abusing them on slower roads or the people that for some unkown reason decide they are required in city traffic and stationary queues.

I'll put in the standard get out clause of "it is brainstorming!" :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 21:52 
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Quote:
Have fog lights disabled over a set speed (say 40 mph) or even have a warning buzzer sound at this threshold when the fogs are on.


:yesyes: I like the buzzer bit...


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 22:14 
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Roger wrote:
Quote:
Have fog lights disabled over a set speed (say 40 mph) or even have a warning buzzer sound at this threshold when the fogs are on.


:yesyes: I like the buzzer bit...


Or voice alert , every so often , getting more insistant every time.Starting off polite e.g. - "Do we need foglights" - to "Switch of those foglights , fool"


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 00:06 
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Damned fine idea! Easy to do on modern cars. You could have it a bit more subtle like a constant voice reminder "warning, reduced visibility" at anything over (say) 40 when the fog lights were on so that the user had to either slow down or turn the bleedin' things off!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 00:28 
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Good idea :) We could have the same sort of system with speed limits also.


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 Post subject: Re: Rear fog lights
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 03:09 
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4by4 wrote:
Have fog lights disabled over a set speed (say 40 mph) or even have a warning buzzer sound at this threshold when the fogs are on. My reasoning is that they should only be used when visibility is seriously reduced and therefore so should your speed.


Looks like a damn fine idea... There must be a downside, but I'm struggling to find one.

Possibly I might want to show rear fogs on a quiet road in very heavy spray - visibility behind doesn't match visibility in front in such conditions. (But if someone catching up couldn't figure that a vehicle was causing the spray, I think we're in trouble anyway.)

If it was a warning beep, it might be possible to spend mile after mile trying to figure out why the car was beeping. Perhaps the fog light dash warning lamp should also flash. I REALLY don't want a car that talks to me - EVER. (Sat nav is OK though.)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 03:10 
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mpaton2004 wrote:
We could have the same sort of system with speed limits also.


Yes of course. That would make sure that everyone was driving safely. :roll:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 16:51 
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How about linking the fog light brightness to the speed, so slower = brighter?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 17:41 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
mpaton2004 wrote:
We could have the same sort of system with speed limits also.


Yes of course. That would make sure that everyone was driving safely. :roll:


I'm not too sure that's a bad idea. FWIW, I use the voice alerts on my sat nav for precisely this reason. On roads where my satnav knows the limit, I can concentrate on proper safety and not have to check my speedo every whipstitch because "Nagging Nora" lets me know should I inadvertently stray over the limit. This means that I'm spending much more of my effort on hazard perception than I would without the voice alerts.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 18:36 
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I is interesting that in some countries rear fogs are not fitted to cars at all (US and Japan) Cars exported to those markets have the function disconnected.

It was about 10 years ago that legislation came in that required new cars to be fitted with self cancelling fogs, that went off when you turned the lights or igintion off and STAYED off till you manualy switched them on again to prevent them from being left on all the time......so why oh why do so many people still drive with them on... :x

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 20:24 
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Gizmo wrote:
so why oh why do so many people still drive with them on... :x


Are the front and rear fog lights on some cars linked, so they are both on?
In my car can turn the front and back on and off independently. Maybe people want to put the front ones on to look "sporty :roll: " but have to have the back ones on at the same time.

Or perhaps some people are not aware these lights are for use in fog, and are for use all the time. Much like those people who drive full beam on all the time. :?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 23:11 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
mpaton2004 wrote:
We could have the same sort of system with speed limits also.


Yes of course. That would make sure that everyone was driving safely. :roll:



But - hey - Paul - one for "BRAINSTORMING" PERHAPS - roadside transponders to alert drivers to speed limit changes .


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 03:39 
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The word fog lights means fog lights not heavy rain/ spray lights they should only be used when visibility from fog is seriously reduced ie 100 metres.

When these rear fogs are used in heavy rain/ spray they just make life more difficult it intensifies too much that you can hardly see let alone know when the vehicle is actually braking.
Stephen


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 08:49 
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ree.t wrote:
Gizmo wrote:
so why oh why do so many people still drive with them on... :x


Are the front and rear fog lights on some cars linked, so they are both on?


On a lot of PSA cars you can't turn the rears on without turning the fronts on first. You can have the fronts on without the rears but not the rears without the fronts.

I am in favour of having rear foglamps switch off at over 30mph, if it's clear enough to drive faster then you don't need them. If you are producing so much spray that you need foglamps to be seen from the rear then you really should stop driving your F1 car on the road.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 09:36 
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Stephen wrote:
The word fog lights means fog lights not heavy rain/ spray lights they should only be used when visibility from fog is seriously reduced ie 100 metres.


I think you made that up (the bit I emboldened)!

Fog lights, although much abused, are useful in conditions of seriously reduced visibility. All of the following may reduce visibility sufficiently to make rear fog lights useful: Fog, mist, smoke, falling snow and spray.

Rain doesn't normally 'seriously reduce visibility' and fog lights are seriously horrible in rain because of reflected glare.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:15 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
Stephen wrote:
The word fog lights means fog lights not heavy rain/ spray lights they should only be used when visibility from fog is seriously reduced ie 100 metres.


I think you made that up (the bit I emboldened)!

Fog lights, although much abused, are useful in conditions of seriously reduced visibility. All of the following may reduce visibility sufficiently to make rear fog lights useful: Fog, mist, smoke, falling snow and spray.

Rain doesn't normally 'seriously reduce visibility' and fog lights are seriously horrible in rain because of reflected glare.

I very strongly suspect you are correct.

The Highway Code states:
Quote:
94: You MUST NOT
  • use any lights in a way which would dazzle or cause discomfort to other road users
  • use front or rear fog lights unless visibility is seriously reduced. You MUST switch them off when visibility improves to avoid dazzling other road users.
    Law RVLR reg 27
And the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989, Regulation 27 states:
Quote:
2. Front fog lamp
  1. Used so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to other persons using the road.
  2. Used so as to be lit at any time other than in conditions of seriously reduced visibility.
  3. Used so as to be lit when a vehicle is parked.
3. Rear fog lamp
  1. Used so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to the driver of a following vehicle.
  2. Used so as to be lit at any time other than in conditions of seriously reduced visibility.
  3. Save in the case of an emergency vehicle, used so as to be lit when a vehicle is parked.
Now, very heavy rain, spray, snow, and smoke are "conditions of seriously reduced visibility" and thus conditions in which fog lights are permitted.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:41 
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Personally, I think they're bloody-awful devices.

What (small) benefit they have in real fog is, in my opinion, far outweighed by the thousands of numpties who drive round with them on all the time. In rain and spray they either look like brake-lights or effectively mask them. In clear conditions they effect your night-vision...

Is there any proof, anywhere, that they actually prevent accidents - or do they cause more than they prevent?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 21:50 
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this device needs to work on the front fog lights as well. Why, in this age, don't fog lights (front and back) have to be turned back on every time the lights and or ignition get turn off, not stay on like they now.

The buzzer could be backed up with a boxing glove that comes out of the airbag and punches the cretin in the face if they are left on when it's not foggy.

I always flash front fog lights, once a BMW even turned them off! In my company vehicle I like to play the I've Got More Lights Than You game, where I keep turning all my lights of untill the penny drops. I've always got more lights than them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 00:26 
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Quote:
Adam.l

The buzzer could be backed up with a boxing glove that comes out of the airbag and punches the cretin in the face if they are left on when it's not foggy.



:clap:

Or 20mm bit arising out of seat into driver's rear , only stopped by switching off said lights.(Cures piles too :lol: )

Find cure for rears - flashing of main beam wakes them up.( or pass them , and flash yours - tho - you don't know they've put them off )


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