Safe Speed Forums

In another topic...



And it set me thinking. I thought:

... yeah, but I can't trust another chap's indicator - he might have left it on by accident...

... so what good are indicators?

... they do warn me about what someone else might do...

... they tell me what I can't do...

... they don't tell me what I can do.

... Hey that's interesting... I never put it in those terms before.

So there you have the brainstorming proposition:

Indicators don't tell you what you can do - they tell you what you can't do.

[ I expect someone will be along in a sec to remind me that I should have known this since I was 7 or something ]

And one more view of the same thing before I hit send...

Indicators don't relinquish road space - they book it.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

All true if you see them first in the state of "on". However, if you see them come on, ie a transition, then they book AND relinquish (etc etc). IMHO

I agree with you Roger.

That said, I almost came a-cropper last weekend: Guy approaching the junction, I was waiting to turn left out of, from the right, indicator comes on to turn in, so I check road clear to the left and pull out. Milliseconds later as I look back over he's coming towards me! I drop the anchors, as does he. I can only assume he was lost, but he waved me on and gave me a big thumbs up, so it was actually one of the more pleasant road encounters I have had! I couldn't help noting how unusual his attitude was, when most people these days would give you the finger even if their error had caused the grief.

I have, since a close call with a large truck, always viewed indicators with suspicion when sitting at a t-junction waiting to pull out. I wait until the turning maneuver is at least half completed before starting to pull out if safe to do so. So I wait a few more seconds. At least I won't get squished.

Also the current everyday car does not lend itself to fast pull aways. Or Is it just because it does not accelerate like my peugeot does.

Exactly - their indication doesn't tell you that you CAN do something.

In other circumstances, their indicator might tell you that you CAN'T do something (like overtake someone indicating right for example).

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Well there's plenty of people who seem to drive like this were the case, especially when it comes to lane changes on the motorway.

I guess that really you need to combine what the indicator is doing with any other information you may have regarding the competency of the driver, but that depends on how long you've been able to see them

That very much depends on who is indicating.

If I indicate, I cannot assume I've booked the space.

Anyone else - yes I must assume they might go where they say.

And that is the crux of indicators. They are there so that we can warn other road users of our intentions. That's all.

The thing that puzzles me is why I get so upset when people fail to indicate or even indicate unnecessarily. Since I never accept the indication as proof of anything, why should it annoy me?

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It's tricky doing nothing - you never know when you're finished

I don't think anyone else has quite understood what I'm trying to get at in this thread. It's an early view of a small but potentially useful revelation.

It's not about what we do when we indicate - it IS about how we respond to indications by others.

Suppose I'm alongside a truck, which starts to indicate right. I'm out of there, pronto. His indication 'booked' road space.

Suppose I'm waiting to pull out of a side road. The only approaching vehicle is indicating left to pull into my side road. I can't go because his indication might be an error or he might intend to stop on the left beyond my side road. His indication DIDN'T relinquish road space.

In these examples, the others' indications don't ENABLE my choices. They RESTRICT my choices.



Why get annoyed about anything? It doesn't help...

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Ah, that's how I feel sometimes after I submit a Brainstorming post.

(I have another one developing which I expect to go down like the lead balloon)

I get your point in the two examples: One books the space and the other doesn't relinquish space, so they're both negatives to us. But isn't that just putting into words what we should all recognise anyway?



I agree. I don't get annoyed in the sense that I'm baying for blood. Maybe I should have said - disappointed.

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It's tricky doing nothing - you never know when you're finished

I'm hoping that I have uncovered an underlying principle which we may be able to communicate better to those less skilled in the art.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Now you put it like that - I can see where you are coming from.

In fact, it's a tidy way of explaining how we should react to other's signals.

I might just employ your logic with my associates - thanks.

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It's tricky doing nothing - you never know when you're finished

I suspect that it may be because you're trying your best to indicate when appropriate and correctly, it then becomes a disappointment when others don't appear to be as considerate as you're trying to be

Yep. I think you're absolutely right. But I also think I'm disapointed that people are generally very lazy, as well as selfish, in their approach to driving.

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It's tricky doing nothing - you never know when you're finished

Ahh, jolly good!

Can we refine it? Or have we arrived? I have a feeling that there's a little bit further to go, but I'm not sure what it is - maybe that's because I haven't got used to it yet.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

That's a sort of intellectual position then, not an emotional one?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I don't think you can read more into indicators than an indication of the other driver's intentions. You absolutely can't assume that the indication was accurate, that you understood it correctly, and that the driver is going to follow through with the implied manoeuvre.

For example, I've seen people give a signal meaning the exact opposite to what I thought - signal left and then do a U-turn to the right, signal right and then pull in to the curb and wait for traffic to clear, signal left and them change lane to the right because they saw an obstruction. Sometimes I think people simply get their left and right mixed up. If they're signalling it probably means they're thinking about doing something, but I wouldn't ever want to rely on them doing what I think the signal implies.

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Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)

That's the point. You can't trust someone's indication to indicate that road space is being made available. But their indication does make road space unavailable. So their indications don't tell you you CAN do something - they only tell you that you CAN'T do something.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I suppose if I'm being really honest - it can swing between the two.

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It's tricky doing nothing - you never know when you're finished

In the past, I have often quoted the saying "An indicator only means that the bulb is working"

I've always thought that was an accurate piece of advice - but I'm not so sure now. Whether or not the indication is intentional or accurate, it reinforces options that are not available to me.

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It's tricky doing nothing - you never know when you're finished

Yeah... we're really getting there now.

And in fact the truth is the exact opposite of the expectation.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety