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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:53 
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How many lives each year does road transport save?

- fewer horse accidents
- fewer canal accidents
- a key driver of economic growth that funds 'social health'
- a means of delivery of safe fresh food
- a means of delivery of emergency care
- a key role in the massive reduction of infant mortality
- ?

If the madder end of the green lobby managed to move us back to the stone age, how many would die each year over and above current numbers?

Can we work towards serious estimates for any of these? It seems that the proposition is more or less self evident...

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:18 
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- fewer diseases caused by horse manure. I heard that ladies used to have leather bottomed-skirts because the city streets were running with the stuff. Yuck!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:47 
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- free up land use for purposes other than livestock

[ :evil: advocate]
- kill more children proportionally than horses
- increase air pollution at congested sites
- increase the number of people on the dole (just think of all the stablepersons, canal workers, dockers, etc put out of business by cars and lorries)
- increase the life expectancy of the individual (less mortality by minor accidents and being run down by horses/falling in the canal) thus putting more strain on an overburdened NHS
[ /:evil: advocate]

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:51 
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Try "emissionising" a horse! Seriously, it would be a big problem if every car on the road was replaced by an appropriate number of horses. Rich people would still have 4, 6 or 8 horse carriages. Unlike yesteryear though, poor people would have access to them as well. That's one hell of a lot more horses than we used to have on our streets at any previous point in history!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 13:34 
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A lack of police response (even less than today), real time and for later investigation.

Subsequently, crime soars. Murders and vengence killings become commonplace.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 13:38 
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http://article.archive.nytimes.com/1893 ... q7E%2Fc%3D

In 1889, in London, 254 persons were killed by horses or conveyances.

That's about the same as the modern figure, but I expect the population was about 1/5th of present levels. I'll try to find it.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 13:58 
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We've touched on this subject before: http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewt ... 2601#52601

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 14:15 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
http://article.archive.nytimes.com/1893/03/12/106814553.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=0KENS5FNHEZD25CVYR82&Expires=1191933047&Signature=MuvLF8XZPP4gGDsvYCcyiQq7E%2Fc%3D

In 1889, in London, 254 persons were killed by horses or conveyances.

That's about the same as the modern figure, but I expect the population was about 1/5th of present levels. I'll try to find it.


How about all the Rodent bourne diseases brought about because the bin men cant collect rubbish. Black death etc.

The air pollution would be terrible , No Plumbers vans - no central heating so back to coal brought in by horses

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 23:58 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
http://article.archive.nytimes.com/1893/03/12/106814553.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=0KENS5FNHEZD25CVYR82&Expires=1191933047&Signature=MuvLF8XZPP4gGDsvYCcyiQq7E%2Fc%3D

In 1889, in London, 254 persons were killed by horses or conveyances.

That's about the same as the modern figure, but I expect the population was about 1/5th of present levels. I'll try to find it.


Tricky to get accurate comparisons though because I bet a lot of those 254 would have survived with modern medical techniques.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 05:14 
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I think most of the greenie folks would only want to ban the private car, not the plumbers' vans, ambulances, dustcarts etc.

Continuing the advocate, how many lives each year does private motoring save?

It's still in favour of where Paul was going I think, but not to the degree.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 08:39 
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You might also consider the effect widespread use of overcrowded public transport would have on disease spread.


http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=2600360&page=1

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:02 
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Quote:
Tricky to get accurate comparisons though because I bet a lot of those 254 would have survived with modern medical techniques.

you could not get to modern medical facillities. the doctors and experts would be many hours away. Your accident facility would be a small local hospital with out mri, cat scans, plastic surgery etc

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“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 23:26 
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Don't see why it wouldn't have all the equipment it has now. Agree about the delays getting there though.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 23:30 
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Roger wrote:
I think most of the greenie folks would only want to ban the private car, not the plumbers' vans, ambulances, dustcarts etc.



Ah but imagine the potential for carnage if most traffic is on horses and mixed in with it are the motorised ambulances, dust carts, police etc... :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 13:08 
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Mole wrote:
Don't see why it wouldn't have all the equipment it has now. Agree about the delays getting there though.


My local hospital doesn't have any of those things now. It doesn't even carry any medications, so if you aren't done by 8:30 (or don't own a car) then you are screwed. (The Asda pharmacy in Caerphilly shuts at 9PM, and is about 15 minutes drive away)


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