Safe Speed Forums

The campaign for genuine road safety
It is currently Sat Dec 16, 2017 15:47

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Ideas to have a look at
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 00:48 
Offline
User

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 19:58
Posts: 730
Re-introduce car trains.

Take a "holistic" look at road transport. What could/should be on the roads? On waterways? Railways? Sea?

_________________
www.thatsnews.org.uk / www.thatsnews.blogspot.com / http://thatsmotoring.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 00:37 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 00:01
Posts: 2258
Location: South Wales
If you mean what I think you mean (ie. like Eurotunnel, but across the country) then I agree.

Integrated public transport is a joke and everyone (here) knows it, but I would love a train network that instead of stopping in congested and impossible to get to town centres (eg. Cardiff, Birmingham) instead stopped in the middle of nowhere but had it's own high capacity link onto a major motorway.

You would only need a couple, one either side of the M25, one somewhere around Birmingham/Coventry with links to the M6 and M1, one near the M6/M62 junction, one on the M4 somewhere between Cardiff and Newport and one on the M90 between Glasgow and Dundee/Edinburgh. You might also want one on the M62 somewhere between Hull and Leeds, one up by Aberdeen and one somewhere near Exeter.

It has environmental benefits in that it would provide a realistic alternative to internal flights, especially since you'll have a car at the other end and not have to hire one or rely on PT, and it has safety benefits in that you wont have people making 8-10 hour car journeys.

Hell I would gladly pay higher than my fuel cost (and then charge it to my company :twisted:) if I could drive onto a train at Cardiff, relax for 6 hours and then get off and have only an hours drive into Edinburgh. Hell I could even get some work done, and receive tech-support calls without pissing everyone off or being distracted from driving.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 04:22 
Offline
User

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 01:16
Posts: 917
Location: Northern England
On another Tack......

One thing about the Uk which has always bothered me, is when I compare the UK with the EU when it comes to "river traffic".

In Europe it's the heartery of the Nation, transporting Bulk loads over long distances by water in the most efficient manner. Through countless Rivers like the Rhine, Elbe, Oder, Mainz, Seine etc.

Hang On a Mo' .........

We're a fechin@ Island!.......

What's wrong about shipping regular loads around the coast?..............


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:44 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 13:54
Posts: 1711
Location: NW Kent
Thatsnews wrote:
Re-introduce car trains.

Take a "holistic" look at road transport. What could/should be on the roads? On waterways? Railways? Sea?


If it was economic it would be done.

_________________
Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:21 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 17:46
Posts: 823
Location: Saltburn, N. Yorks
Moto-rail was brilliant and economic.
Only ended in 2005!

See:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorail


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 13:56 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 13:54
Posts: 1711
Location: NW Kent
Oscar wrote:
Moto-rail was brilliant and economic.
Only ended in 2005!

See:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorail


Wiki wrote:
The services operated at a significant financial loss...


If it was still going I could have been tempted by the Inverness route, a good way to holiday in the highlands without having the drive from down here in Kent.

_________________
Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 18:15 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 23:26
Posts: 9230
Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
Oscar wrote:
Moto-rail was brilliant and economic.
Only ended in 2005!

See:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorail


Thanks Oscar -was going to ask what happened to it.

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 19:20 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 00:01
Posts: 2258
Location: South Wales
I had no idea that even existed. I could have made use of it (at least the Edinburgh route) a few years ago.

Shame about the lack of services to Wales though. :(


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 19:27 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 23:26
Posts: 9230
Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
Lum wrote:
I had no idea that even existed. I could have made use of it (at least the Edinburgh route) a few years ago.

Shame about the lack of services to Wales though. :(


And I suspect that the list of places WK says it operated from was longer than that given - memories of tales from my father loading Mercs onto one a bit further north than Fort William.

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 19:53 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 21:17
Posts: 3734
Location: Dorset/Somerset border
I went on it (aged 6) from Carlisle to Newton Abbot IIRC in about 1980.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 22:02 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 23:09
Posts: 6731
Location: Stockport, Cheshire
Thatsnews wrote:
Re-introduce car trains.

Presumably a major reason for dropping Motorail was that the development of the motorway system meant that you could get to places by car much quicker than you used to be able.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 22:52 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 00:01
Posts: 2258
Location: South Wales
PeterE wrote:
Presumably a major reason for dropping Motorail was that the development of the motorway system meant that you could get to places by car much quicker than you used to be able.


Which is why now would be a good time to bring them back :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 22:55 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 22:02
Posts: 3266
I believe it was expensive and the vandals threw bricks at the cars. (imagine it now!) It is also quite slow.

_________________
Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 22:59 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 00:01
Posts: 2258
Location: South Wales
But in these days of trains that can actually do 3-figure speeds, it should be a lot better, of course, the trains would have to be covered both for aerodynamics and because of the aforementioned bricks (which happens on motorways too)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:48 
Offline
User

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 16:04
Posts: 816
Lum wrote:
But in these days of trains that can actually do 3-figure speeds, it should be a lot better, of course, the trains would have to be covered both for aerodynamics and because of the aforementioned bricks (which happens on motorways too)


Couldn't decommissioned Eurostar freight trains be used? After all, we should encourage recycling.

_________________
Prepare to be Judged


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 14:17 
Offline
User

Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 00:42
Posts: 310
Location: North West England
Though it sounds like a great plan in practice there simply isn't the capacity on the rail system to have regular car-trains. Most of the major conurbations rail systems are fit to bust and there are several pinch points across the system that would require huge investment to relieve.

In addition the motoring public have to a degree developed an aversion to public transport - they are above all that - so getting them to sit in a train instead of their own little world will be a challenge.

It might have worked for freight overnight, when there's the capacity, but the UK loading gauge means we can't drive HGVs straight onto a train and away. So lot of lengthy loading and unloading.
The only mainline we had with a continental loading gauge shut in 1960s.

Then there's costs. Just as we think that local councils are deliberately engineering congestion there was a suspicion that rail freight prices we're being gerrymandered in the 70s and 80s to get freight on the roads and close lines, depots etc. One example was Didcot Power Station. Supplied by up to 4 trains a day, each carrying around 1000 tons. It was claimed that it would be cheaper to use HGVs to bring the coal from south Wales. You'd need 30 to bring 1 train load, and it was supposed to be cheaper :shock: I don't expect they've slashed rail fraight costs since.

It could be made to work with a proper rail hub and rail to road depots but it would require lots of infrastructure and a politcial will that isn't there. After all the DoT is trailing 60ton HGVs :roll:

Barkstar

_________________
The difference between intelligence and stupidity is that intelligence has limits.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 16:41 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 00:01
Posts: 2258
Location: South Wales
I dont get it, isn't private motorised transport supposed to be the root of all evil. If so why are they closing train lines and ramping up train prices (up 7% on average in January according to Radio 1 last week. Up 15% if you live in Kent)

Could the reality that they just want to stop the proles from moving around the country freely?

I never thought of myself as a conspiracy nutcase but I really can't think of any other explanation.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 04:02 
Offline
User

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 01:16
Posts: 917
Location: Northern England
Please Sir!.......

Could I respectfully suggest that it's the "Lorries" that we need to get get onto the railway...............NOT the friggin' cars! GRRrr! :roll:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 09:20 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 22:02
Posts: 3266
They have just announced a project to widen the rail bridges and tunnels around Southampton so that larger containers CAN travel by rail from Southampton port.

However it means closing the Southampton London track for 6 months to widen the tunnel that goes under Southampton city centre :shock:

It will take a measly 10% of lorries of the local roads at best.

_________________
Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 01:22 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 14:04
Posts: 2325
Location: The interweb
Oscar wrote:
Moto-rail was brilliant and economic.
Only ended in 2005!

See:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorail


Wiki wrote:
The services operated at a significant financial loss, so most routes were discontinued


This is the real problem with public transport in the UK. You can't run a public service on a "for profit" basis, which is what we are trying to do.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.254s | 13 Queries | GZIP : Off ]