Safe Speed Forums

Re-introduce car trains.

Take a "holistic" look at road transport. What could/should be on the roads? On waterways? Railways? Sea?

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www.thatsnews.org.uk / www.thatsnews.blogspot.com / http://thatsmotoring.blogspot.com/

If you mean what I think you mean (ie. like Eurotunnel, but across the country) then I agree.

Integrated public transport is a joke and everyone (here) knows it, but I would love a train network that instead of stopping in congested and impossible to get to town centres (eg. Cardiff, Birmingham) instead stopped in the middle of nowhere but had it's own high capacity link onto a major motorway.

You would only need a couple, one either side of the M25, one somewhere around Birmingham/Coventry with links to the M6 and M1, one near the M6/M62 junction, one on the M4 somewhere between Cardiff and Newport and one on the M90 between Glasgow and Dundee/Edinburgh. You might also want one on the M62 somewhere between Hull and Leeds, one up by Aberdeen and one somewhere near Exeter.

It has environmental benefits in that it would provide a realistic alternative to internal flights, especially since you'll have a car at the other end and not have to hire one or rely on PT, and it has safety benefits in that you wont have people making 8-10 hour car journeys.

Hell I would gladly pay higher than my fuel cost (and then charge it to my company ) if I could drive onto a train at Cardiff, relax for 6 hours and then get off and have only an hours drive into Edinburgh. Hell I could even get some work done, and receive tech-support calls without pissing everyone off or being distracted from driving.

On another Tack......

One thing about the Uk which has always bothered me, is when I compare the UK with the EU when it comes to "river traffic".

In Europe it's the heartery of the Nation, transporting Bulk loads over long distances by water in the most efficient manner. Through countless Rivers like the Rhine, Elbe, Oder, Mainz, Seine etc.

Hang On a Mo' .........

We're a fechin@ Island!.......

What's wrong about shipping regular loads around the coast?..............

If it was economic it would be done.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

Moto-rail was brilliant and economic.
Only ended in 2005!

See:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorail

If it was still going I could have been tempted by the Inverness route, a good way to holiday in the highlands without having the drive from down here in Kent.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

Thanks Oscar -was going to ask what happened to it.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

I had no idea that even existed. I could have made use of it (at least the Edinburgh route) a few years ago.

Shame about the lack of services to Wales though.

And I suspect that the list of places WK says it operated from was longer than that given - memories of tales from my father loading Mercs onto one a bit further north than Fort William.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

I went on it (aged 6) from Carlisle to Newton Abbot IIRC in about 1980.

Presumably a major reason for dropping Motorail was that the development of the motorway system meant that you could get to places by car much quicker than you used to be able.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Which is why now would be a good time to bring them back

I believe it was expensive and the vandals threw bricks at the cars. (imagine it now!) It is also quite slow.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

But in these days of trains that can actually do 3-figure speeds, it should be a lot better, of course, the trains would have to be covered both for aerodynamics and because of the aforementioned bricks (which happens on motorways too)

Couldn't decommissioned Eurostar freight trains be used? After all, we should encourage recycling.

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Prepare to be Judged

Though it sounds like a great plan in practice there simply isn't the capacity on the rail system to have regular car-trains. Most of the major conurbations rail systems are fit to bust and there are several pinch points across the system that would require huge investment to relieve.

In addition the motoring public have to a degree developed an aversion to public transport - they are above all that - so getting them to sit in a train instead of their own little world will be a challenge.

It might have worked for freight overnight, when there's the capacity, but the UK loading gauge means we can't drive HGVs straight onto a train and away. So lot of lengthy loading and unloading.
The only mainline we had with a continental loading gauge shut in 1960s.

Then there's costs. Just as we think that local councils are deliberately engineering congestion there was a suspicion that rail freight prices we're being gerrymandered in the 70s and 80s to get freight on the roads and close lines, depots etc. One example was Didcot Power Station. Supplied by up to 4 trains a day, each carrying around 1000 tons. It was claimed that it would be cheaper to use HGVs to bring the coal from south Wales. You'd need 30 to bring 1 train load, and it was supposed to be cheaper I don't expect they've slashed rail fraight costs since.

It could be made to work with a proper rail hub and rail to road depots but it would require lots of infrastructure and a politcial will that isn't there. After all the DoT is trailing 60ton HGVs

Barkstar

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The difference between intelligence and stupidity is that intelligence has limits.

I dont get it, isn't private motorised transport supposed to be the root of all evil. If so why are they closing train lines and ramping up train prices (up 7% on average in January according to Radio 1 last week. Up 15% if you live in Kent)

Could the reality that they just want to stop the proles from moving around the country freely?

I never thought of myself as a conspiracy nutcase but I really can't think of any other explanation.

Please Sir!.......

Could I respectfully suggest that it's the "Lorries" that we need to get get onto the railway...............NOT the friggin' cars! GRRrr!

They have just announced a project to widen the rail bridges and tunnels around Southampton so that larger containers CAN travel by rail from Southampton port.

However it means closing the Southampton London track for 6 months to widen the tunnel that goes under Southampton city centre

It will take a measly 10% of lorries of the local roads at best.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

This is the real problem with public transport in the UK. You can't run a public service on a "for profit" basis, which is what we are trying to do.