Safe Speed Forums

The campaign for genuine road safety
It is currently Sat Dec 16, 2017 15:50

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 22:45 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 15:00
Posts: 1109
Location: Can't see.
Ziltro wrote:
Also, you say they should be "banned" from parking on restrictions... So where they are already "banned" then? ;)


I said restrictive, in the physical meaning, as in there simply isn't avaliable space for an artic to park and unload at rush hour.

_________________
Fear is a weapon of mass distraction


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 03:20 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:52
Posts: 947
Location: falkirk
how many mini supermarkets are open 24 hours? have you ever heard of night time bans? restricted hours of delivery. one shop i delivered to today has a 12 hour window and thats it because of its proximity to houses. the 9 - 5 brigade need their sleep. never mind us night workers who have screamed brats, roadworks and all the other noises that you get during daylight hours. after a 14 hours shift what i really want is someone making lots of noise outside :roll:

locally speaking and regulatory there are all sorts of restrictions. loading times, maximum hours worked. maximum hours driven. night time curfews. day time restricted times. etc etc etc etc etc. these all have to be worked around with x amount of trucks and x amount of drivers. if this bothers you that much get on to the local authorities about park and ride schemes. get the cars out of the streets so we can get in and out again. we dont want to be there but the shops need supplies and there are only so many hours in a day. the last thing we are worried about is inconveniencing a car driver who could be somewhere else

_________________
Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 08:08 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 08:22
Posts: 2618
If car drivers learned a little bit of patience and cooperation then the congestion wouldn't occur in the first place.

_________________
Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 13:27 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 15:00
Posts: 1109
Location: Can't see.
scanny77 wrote:
how many mini supermarkets are open 24 hours? have you ever heard of night time bans? restricted hours of delivery. one shop i delivered to today has a 12 hour window


That gives 10 hours that aren't morning rush hour.

scanny77 wrote:
and thats it because of its proximity to houses.


This is a 24/7 main road that never sleeps, I doubt anyone would notice an unloading lorry.

scanny77 wrote:
the 9 - 5 brigade need their sleep. never mind us night workers who have screamed brats, roadworks and all the other noises that you get during daylight hours. after a 14 hours shift what i really want is someone making lots of noise outside :roll:

locally speaking and regulatory there are all sorts of restrictions. loading times, maximum hours worked. maximum hours driven. night time curfews. day time restricted times. etc etc etc etc etc. these all have to be worked around with x amount of trucks and x amount of drivers. if this bothers you that much get on to the local authorities about park and ride schemes. get the cars out of the streets so we can get in and out again. we dont want to be there but the shops need supplies and there are only so many hours in a day. the last thing we are worried about is inconveniencing a car driver who could be somewhere else


I'm not "having a pop" at lorry drivers for the hell of it scanny, I'm pointing out a stupid and unecessary situation, that probably has more to do with the supermarkets in question than the lorry drivers. Fact is, there's two miles of shops and businesses on kentish town road, all sorts of flavours, large and small, but the only ones that feel the need to blockade the road during AM rush hour on a daily basis are the supermarkets in question. the woolworths doesn't. the hardware shops don't. the asian mini-marts don't. the newsagents don't. the pubs and bars don't. the chippies and kebab shops don't. the bakers don't. the florists don't. the bed shop doesn't. the estate agents, bless 'em, don't. No, everyone except tesco and iceland finds a way of handling deliveries without creating a bottleneck on one of the arterial roads into london during morning rush hour, increasing danger for peds and two wheelers and fustration for motorists. I'm aware that lorry drivers have difficulties to overcome, but believe it or not everyone has their problems, most of which we balence with an eye on the disruption we cause to others. My point is, these two supermarkets (and probably others) do what suits them and simply can't give a sh!t. If it's "not possible" for them to operate any other way, then they shouldn't be opening stores in such locations.

_________________
Fear is a weapon of mass distraction


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 13:46 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:52
Posts: 947
Location: falkirk
woolworths and the likes probably take one delivery a day. iceland shops take 2 normally. tesco take several deliveries a day. they run every hour of every day. i know because they are my main client now. with approx 120 shops and approx 180 trucks they have to be planned. they need time between deliveries to clear the space for the next one. they cant accept 3 or 4 trucks at once. timing is critical in this business and frankly i dont see why a commuter or shopper should take priority over a road user who has no alternative. trucks have to be there to deliver. commuters could use alternative means as can shoppers. i am not a car hater. quite the contrary since i hate walking anywhere BUT i dont drive my car during peak hours and i use proper car parks rather than park on a street and the main reason i use car parks is my understanding of truck drivers requirements. regardless of time, if i arrive at a shop in a busy street with a selfishly parked car blocking the area that i need where do i go? i have had to call the police on more than one occasion to remove a car or to block traffic so i can manouvre or park to unload. we NEED to be there when we are there! do you really think we want to be stuck in a queue of cars eating into our driving time? we dont! we would much rather be flat out going somwhere but there is nothing we can do about it!

_________________
Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 14:44 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 02:50
Posts: 2868
Location: Dorset
It's still the council who allowed the shop to be built in the first place. They know that a shop requires deliveries.

Poole council "solved" a similar problem by installing "no loading" restrictions around a mini supermarket hoping to make £60 a time. Now they park the lorry at the end of this restriction and take longer to unload. Wahey.

_________________
Andrew.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:57 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 14:47
Posts: 1659
Location: A Dark Desert Highway
anyone driving during rush hour isn't doing it for pleasure, they have places to go, people to see. Who would decide whether road user A has a more important journy than road user B?

As long as they are legal and above board I see no reason to ban anyone from using the roads which they have paid hansomely for.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 18:59 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 00:01
Posts: 2258
Location: South Wales
Even if this was a good idea, and it isn't, defining rush hour is never going to work either.

Either you'll have some centrally defined definition, such as 4:30PM-6:30 PM, which fails miserably on some roads (for example rush hour on the M42 is 2PM-7PM (9PM on a Friday) or you'll have individual restrictions for each set of roads which will just lead to chaos, eg you'll get 3/4 of the way to your destination, but the rush hour starts earlier in the town centre and suddenly you're banned and will have to reverse back out.

As for selfish parking, a lot of really bad parking problems would go away if it became legal for trucks and emergency vehicles to shunt someone out of the way if they're illegally blocking an access (I'm not advocating this particular change, but it would certainly make people think about where they park). Like in that picture that always does the rounds of the American who ignored the rule about parking in front of a fire hydrant. However I suspect a lot of the selfish parking is actually caused by people who recognise that most parking restrictions these days are pointless malicious money grabs by the council, but have failed to spot why the current restriction they're ignoring is actually a necessary one. Basically another example of cry wolf syndrome.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 16:58 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:52
Posts: 947
Location: falkirk
i had one last week parked outside tesco in st andrews. the staff put cages on the road to prevent parking (common practice when i delivery is due) but someone parked in between them. i was at that shop for 3 hours due to this Image

i did grab a police officer but they cant do anything when there are no restrictions.

i did have more luck in london once. i parked on the pavement and someone parked on the corner (chevrons painted on the road) which blocked me in. they gave him a parking ticket along with a telling off and arranged a street to street removal (cancelled as the owner turned up) which means the car is shifted a few streets away. they like doing that for 3 reasons.
1. it allows them to remove the offending car
2. it means they can track the owner down
3. it distresses the owner as they normally end up reporting their car is stolen :lol:

i like the police 8-)

_________________
Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 20:23 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 02:50
Posts: 2868
Location: Dorset
scanny77 wrote:
i did grab a police officer but they cant do anything when there are no restrictions.

What's their use then? They can only do something which makes them easy money but actually doing something about "obstructive parking" isn't going to happen?

_________________
Andrew.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 20:43 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 23:26
Posts: 9230
Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
I was always led to believe that a PC can ticket for "causing an obstruction"-despite restrictions not being in place.Many's the time I have parked in restricted areas ,with the blessing of a traffic warden (to do my job as a service engineer),with the proviso that I could be asked to move by a PC .

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:25 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 08:22
Posts: 2618
Lum wrote:
As for selfish parking, a lot of really bad parking problems would go away if it became legal for trucks and emergency vehicles to shunt someone out of the way if they're illegally blocking an access...


Pallet trucks and forklifts are useful...

:angel:

_________________
Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 22:00 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 23:26
Posts: 9230
Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
[quote="Sixy_the_red
Pallet trucks and forklifts are useful...

:angel:[/quote]

As are signs informing parkers that "Our forklift will enforce that this entrance is kept clear" ,as seen outside a truckstop on the A38--needless to say ,the forklift did little enforcement . :lol:

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 18:47 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:52
Posts: 947
Location: falkirk
one of the best stories i heard was actually a traffic warden who helped
7.5 ton driver was outside a shop doing a delivery using a pallet truck. as usual he left his tail lift flat down. when he came back he found a car partially parked on the tail lift (front wheels). he explained the problem to a passing traffic warden and he asked if his tail lift would lift the car. 'yeah, no problem!' so the traffic wardens tells him he will be back in a minute as he is popping to the builders merchants across the road. he comes back with a couple of breeze blocks and instructs the driver to lift the car. he does this and the traffic warden places the breeze blocks under the car just behind the front wheels and tells the driver to lower the tail lift and pull forward so he can put his tail lift away. 'off you go driver, i am going to stand in a doorway and wait for the owner to come back'

:lol: :lol: :lol:

_________________
Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 00:00 
Offline
User

Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 15:50
Posts: 249
antera309 wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against lorry drivers or anything, but this would seem to be an effective way of reducing peak time congestion - look at all the much needed space that would be created on the roads.

Given the number of motorway accidents involving HGVs during the morning rush hour in particular, it could be a good thing for safety too.

I am aware that there would be a commercial cost, but I doubt the cost would be as significant as that of national road pricing.

Obviously the lorries would need places to park up during rush hour, but I'm sure the coffee shops and eateries adjacent to these places would do enough trade to pay back the cost of building them.


Congestion is not caused by a particular veh type, it is caused by traffic volumes and the way that traffic flows (often badly due to poor driving and percieved urgency of their mission)

The trucks are less likely to cause probs by the way they drive but are more likely to be involved in problems by the actions of the 'RUSH' hr drivers. E.G. Most motorists haste to go through lights on amber and red leads to cockups in flow controls and build ups further down the road.Rush hr traffic is normally associated with sudden increased volume of commuter traffic to and from work/shops etc usually carried out between certain hrs of the day. If you just sit back and watch it sometime you will see just how badly people get from a to b when they have to be at work.

As far as cost goes it can in some cases be very high and could even lead to lost contracts. Also, would you like to be stopped during your day and told to sit somewhere un-paid for two hrs? The haulage industry has already been strangled into submission in rates, yet are expected to operate on a 'just in time' delivery set up. If not for this practice hundreds of warehouses would need building to house all perishable goods, also another problem of security of high value cargo would emerge if they had to sit around for 2 hrs every rush hr. Crims would have a ball.Not to mention the 2 hr sit on yer ass time might mean a night out for the driver rather than being back to re-load for the next day(that cocks up load schedules and adds subsistance cocts to the haulier even worse if the truck is run 24/7 with driver changeover) All this and more would go on consumers bills. Can you imagine in the current climate of rising food costs an additional 50p on every food product you buy?

I can understand you suggestion because Ive heard it many times before, the greatest contributor to congestion is the car(and lots of them), driven mostly by poor drivers and in a hurry, focused on getting where they want to be with mob phone stuck to their ear and listening to music ,rather than driving there correctly.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 21:30 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 14:48
Posts: 244
Location: Warrington ex Sandgrounder[Southport]
There is a simple solution to all this talk about HGV`s causing congestion and the simple answer is to get all these clowns who work 9-5 in banks and offices to what we HGV drivers do for a living and get their a**** out of bed at 3 in the morning and open up all the offices and banks etc. for business and work "Flexi-time" so we HGV drivers can get on with the business of delivering the goods to whoever wants them at whatever time they want them! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

As "Scanny" says we didn,t put the shops where they are we just deliver to the damn things :hoppingmad: :hoppingmad:

As an ex RDC driver (for over 18 years) it is bloody infuriating to arrive for a delivery to find some ignorant car driver has parked / abandoned his / her car in front of a loading bay or entrance and you are stuck and can,t go anywhere to turn round or park up until said ignoramous returns to move the car :evil: :evil: :x :x

Another solution is to build more park & ride carparks on all the waste or derelict land such as industrial estates scattered all over the country doing nothing as it would employ drivers / car park attendants and others which would reduce the dole qeue and there would also be no need for this ridiculous money making "scam" of congestion charging as a small flat fee of say £2.00 per day would easily show a profit for the bus companies with the sheer volume of pasengers carried :clap: :clap:

But as with this moneygrabbing / moneyscamming govnmt. we would have more chance of using "ET`s" bike to go to the moon than thinking about saving the motorist from being ripped off at a great rate of knots as all this govnmt. are hell bent on is relieving the motorist of his / her hard earned money! :roll: :roll: :roll: :x :x :x

_________________
"There But For The Grace of God Go I"

"He Who Ain,t Made Mistakes Ain,t Made Anything"

Spannernut


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 23:50 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 23:26
Posts: 9230
Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
Stormin - :clap: :clap: :clap: ---perhas the time has come to stick some of these Cap'n Mainwairing ("dam bank clerk "types " ) in something a bit bigger than a Smart car for a day and let them see life on the other side . Even in a transit LWB,Hi top I get problems from the Smart car brigade . How you 44t blokes do it without braeking a blood vessel is beyond me . :lol: :lol:

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 04:19 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 14:04
Posts: 2325
Location: The interweb
Stormin wrote:
There is a simple solution to all this talk about HGV`s causing congestion and the simple answer is to get all these clowns who work 9-5 in banks and offices to what we HGV drivers do for a living and get their a**** out of bed at 3 in the morning and open up all the offices and banks etc.


Guess where I've been all night the past 4 nights. :?:

You are not the only shift workers you know.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 03:19 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 01:42
Posts: 686
Many thanks to everyone for their responses. My intention with this one was just to "put an idea out there" to see what came back.

I'm not an expert in logistics by any means, but I can appreciate that the economic cost of disrupting the flow of goods (particularly perishable ones) from source to destination would likely be too high a price to pay for slightly smoother running traffic in rush hour. And the security concern was one I hadn't thought of.

So, yes, probably an unworkable idea. But no less workable than the Government's ridiculous National road pricing plans in my opinion.

_________________
“For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.” - H. L. Mencken


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.613s | 11 Queries | GZIP : Off ]