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 Post subject: Wing mirrors
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 09:03 
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I recently saw some interesting advice on how wing mirrors should correctly be adjusted, which was a bit different to how I was traditionally guided to adjust them. The advice was to adjust them so that the vertical field of view is equal about the horizon and then adjust them outwards until you just stop seeing the side of your car in the inner edge of the mirror.

How do fellow safespeeders adjust their wingmirrors?


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 Post subject: Re: Wing mirrors
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:24 
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samcro wrote:
I recently saw some interesting advice on how wing mirrors should correctly be adjusted, which was a bit different to how I was traditionally guided to adjust them. The advice was to adjust them so that the vertical field of view is equal about the horizon and then adjust them outwards until you just stop seeing the side of your car in the inner edge of the mirror.

How do fellow safespeeders adjust their wingmirrors?


Pretty much as you describe, althouth I set mine to look downwards a little more, mainly to aid reversing into marked parking bays.

BTW, yesterday I tried to post a reply to you about coasting, but something went wrong and it hasn't appeared - probably my fault. I don't think there's much wrong with what bit of coasting you're doing. I do the same.

Best wishes all,
Dave.


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 Post subject: Re: Wing mirrors
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:42 
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Slightly inboard of your advice so that I can see just behind my vehicle. This avoids any blind areas between the interior mirror and the door mirrors (I assume most people don't have wing mirrors these days).

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 Post subject: Re: Wing mirrors
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:01 
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Malcolmw. Interesting. I was having a check of what I can and can't see in my wing/door mirrors and also rear view mirror and even with the side mirrors adjusted outwards so that I can't see any of my car's side there is still an overlap in coverage. In my rearview mirror I can see all of the back window (and a bit of the interior surrounding it) so this gives coverage out to the sides quite well too. Exactly what coverage is possible with the mirrors will depend on what specific vehicle you drive, clearly.

As the more dangerous blind spots are at approximately the "4 o'clock" and "8 o'clock" positions surely any additional mirror coverage into these areas can only be beneficial. Maybe side mirrors should be adjusted outwards even more? What consequences might there be for having side mirrors adjusted in this way, so that they don't give so much rearward view?


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 Post subject: Re: Wing mirrors
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 13:35 
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Reference 4 o'clock and 8 o'clock, in appropriate circumstances I look over my shoulders in addition to using the mirrors. You don't have to make too much movement to do this as peripheral vision means that head rotation is not too large.

You do not mention the varying types of door mirrors. My car as aspheric lenses which give an increased horizontal field of view compared to flat or simple convex types.

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 Post subject: Re: Wing mirrors
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 14:32 
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As a white van man :bunker: I drive by my wing mirrors.

I have a little bit of bodywork visible in each mirror and the vertical adjustment so that the road behind appears fairly close to the top of my field of view, so that I can see where I'm reversing.


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 Post subject: Re: Wing mirrors
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 14:47 
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My car has an aspheric mirror too (not lens, just to be pedantic :wink: ), but only on the driver's side. I find this very usefully extends the horizontal FoV to the extent that my "4 o'clock" blind spot is almost too small for cars to 'hide' in: I can still see the tail of a car in my side mirror as I am becoming aware of it in my peripheral vision to the right.

Beware of fast smart cars :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Wing mirrors
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 00:36 
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malcolmw wrote:
Reference 4 o'clock and 8 o'clock, in appropriate circumstances I look over my shoulders in addition to using the mirrors. You don't have to make too much movement to do this as peripheral vision means that head rotation is not too large.



Aye, but I hope you don't have to move your head far enough to loose sight of your speedo at any point - that would be dangerous! :wink:

In a less flippant vein, I like to adjust mine so that I can see a tiny bit of my car in the inner corner as it then gives me a better frame of reference as to where an object in the mirror is in relation to my car.


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 Post subject: Re: Wing mirrors
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 00:13 
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I have mine adjusted pretty much as suggested in your OP with the proviso that as TripleS they are tilted down slightly. All of the cars I drive have remote electrically adjustable mirrors so I tend to move the appropriate mirror to help with parking if necessary.

I do not like the aspheric mirrors as I find I have to look at them far longer than I want to have my eyes away from forward for to make sense of the image. A glance over the shoulder is much faster and more effective so all these mirrors achieve is reduced effective area imho. I have known friends change the mirrors by buying the lhd versions of the mirror if the passenger side is plane on their car. The mirrors on my cars are plane or slightly convex possibly so they are fine, my wife's car has aspheric on both sides unfortunately so i cannot do anything about them.

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 Post subject: Re: Wing mirrors
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:23 
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"I do not like the aspheric mirrors "


I agree entirely, I find that they give a false sense of distance which, when using to judge the distance when reversing (if fitted to a van) can be a damn nuisance and when using to overtake (on a motorway or dual carrage way), you think that a vehicle approaching from behind is much closer than it actually is.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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 Post subject: Re: Wing mirrors
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 13:11 
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I sometimes wonder if the magnifying nature of mirrors leads some people to think they are being tailgated more closely than they actually are.


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 Post subject: Re: Wing mirrors
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 13:32 
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Like some others I like to be able to see a bit of the rear quarters to help with spatial awareness and for reversing .. have to reverse up/down a narrow driveway and I'd really hate to have to repaint the roughcast if any paint from the car got on it :lol: I use an over the shoulder "lifesaver" look before lane changes etc. just to make sure it's clear.

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 Post subject: Re: Wing mirrors
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 17:48 
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Johnnytheboy wrote:
I sometimes wonder if the magnifying nature of mirrors leads some people to think they are being tailgated more closely than they actually are.


Actually, convex mirrors diminish so things are further away than they appear to be. :bunker:


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 Post subject: Re: Wing mirrors
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 18:21 
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Quote:

Actually, convex mirrors diminish so things are further away than they appear to be. :bunker:


Interesting point.

I have recently swapped my Honda Estate for a Citreon Xantia Estate and instantly noticed the difference in the door mirrors, the door mirrors on the Honda made everything look closer on the Honda than they actually were but the Citreon ones give the impression of correct distance....up to a few metres away anyway.

As it happens, my interior mirror of the Xantia fell off this weekend and I haven't got round to resticking it yet but when i hold the interior mirror next to the door mirror and view my garage door which is just a few feet behind the rear of the car, the interior mirror gives a much more magnified effect than the door mirror.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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 Post subject: Re: Wing mirrors
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 18:54 
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I guess I was going OT (as ever) and referring to rear-view mirrors.

Though my VW van has a OS wing mirror that I can only describe as bifocals. The outer bit makes things look further away, the inner bit does not.


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 Post subject: Re: Wing mirrors
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 20:08 
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Isn't that what an "aspheric" miror is?.... plain in the middle but convex on the outside...

http://www.toolworks.com/bilofsky/boxster/mirrors.html

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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 Post subject: Re: Wing mirrors
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 20:15 
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What are referred to as aspheric types have radii of curvature which vary in the horizontal plane.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.


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 Post subject: Wing mirror adjustment
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 04:18 
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Image

When I drove a taxicab, only a small child could hide in the red areas, and only if they snugged up against my estate.

Now that I no longer drive a taxicab, a 6' tall 180 lb person could hide in the red areas if they snugged up against my estate.

In neither case should my awareness lapse to allow a pedestrian, much less a bicyclist or any part of a car to sneak into the red areas.

If I find myself driving on highways for extended periods of time, I might allow the red areas to get wide enough to hide a bicyclist up against my car.

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1) No one gets hurt
2) Nothing gets hit, except to protect others; see Rule#1
3) The Laws of Physics are invincible and immutable - so-called 'laws' of men are not
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Do not let other road users' mistakes become yours, nor yours become others
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 Post subject: Re: Wing mirrors
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:27 
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The Rush.. Interesting graphic. I tend to agree that it's quite difficult for things to get into the red areas without you realising, provided you're attentive.

Interestingly, I note that there appears to be little benefit from adjusting my side mirrors out much more than how I currently have them set as the plastic surround that doesn't move with the mirror starts to obstruct the view.

I can't quite understand how mirrors can have a "magnifying" effect as they will pretty much always either be flat or slightly convex (I have yet to see a concave rear-view or side mirror on a vehicle). Convex mirrors give a wider angle of view so things appear smaller, and therefore our brains interpret this as more distant. Try looking through a very wide angle camera lens - you'll be surprised at how close you actually are to things, compared to how they appear through the lens.


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 Post subject: Wing Mirrors
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 18:58 
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samcro wrote:
... Interesting graphic. I tend to agree that it's quite difficult for things to get into the red areas without you realising, provided you're attentive.
All the driver assistance devices and technologies in the world won't help a driver who is not capable of paying quality attention. That's part of the reason why I get nervous around tiny vehicles with excellent rear visibility and additional mirrors.
Quote:
Interestingly, I note that there appears to be little benefit from adjusting my side mirrors out much more than how I currently have them set as the plastic surround that doesn't move with the mirror starts to obstruct the view.
Something like what this one calls 'Too Wide'?ImageI disagree with the gif's judgment, by the way.

'Too Wide' is also known as George Platzer's BlindSpot & Glare Elimination Setting. It's FINE for highways and other areas where there's no good reason to expect to be surprised by pedestrians, I.E.: non-metropolitan, non-urban settings, IF you check the mirrors every five seconds or less.

On the other hand, if you only check the mirrors when you're about to do a lane change - like, say, most Amerikans - the BGE Setting has disadvantages ... just ask Eddie Wren.
It's why I don't use it in urban or metropolitan settings.
Quote:
I can't quite understand how mirrors can have a "magnifying" effect as they will pretty much always either be flat or slightly convex (I have yet to see a concave rear-view or side mirror on a vehicle). Convex mirrors give a wider angle of view so things appear smaller, and therefore our brains interpret this as more distant. Try looking through a very wide angle camera lens - you'll be surprised at how close you actually are to things, compared to how they appear through the lens.
I've become accustomed to Amerika's peculiar tendency to make the right side mirror convex, but every so often when I notice a mirror on my right side whenever I'm not in the driver's seat , it takes me a moment to recalibrate my visual expectations.

_________________
The Rules for ALL ROAD USERS:
1) No one gets hurt
2) Nothing gets hit, except to protect others; see Rule#1
3) The Laws of Physics are invincible and immutable - so-called 'laws' of men are not
4) You are always immediately and ultimately responsible for your safety first, then proximately responsible for everyone's
Do not let other road users' mistakes become yours, nor yours become others
5) The rest, including laws of the land, is thoughtful observation, prescience, etiquette, decorum, and cooperation


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