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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 16:10 
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Hi, heres an idea I have been thinking about - hoping to save some lives :)

Image

Basically this is a small transmitter/receiver box (also with a crash sensor) that would be fitted in all cars/all new cars. This would both sense a crash in one car and then cause a light to light up on the dashboards of all nearby cars (within say, a hundred meter radius).

I think it could be made cheaply because it could use a similar technology to wireless doorbells which you can buy now for under 7 pounds.


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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 20:28 
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...and what if the local "speed kills" NIMBYs got hold of such a device?

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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 17:41 
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:welcome: sirius07
OK interesting idea, but I honestly cannot see how it can replace or better, good observation skills ? I can see that an additional warning device may help alert others to a problem, on rare occasions, but, there are 'problems' such as :
a) What if it is a nearby road but will not 'effect' those then then get a warning but cannot see any incident? They may assume 'another' false alert.
b) If it is within 100m/yds or so then it is likely that most will see the incident anyway and so need little warning of it.
c) Those that are further away, and are unaffected, other than that they have had to slow / stop for 'something ahead' will (now-a-days) likely get a warning on their 'live' traffic incident warning systems fairly quickly.
d) On a motorway then it might help in fog, or round a corner but ... (they ought to be going carefully anyway) ...
e) it may lead to some people relying on it and assume it is all safe to proceed - thus make people take less care in good and proper observation skills.
f) What if it is a 'softer' (road side furnishings / people etc) accident, will it work then? How much 'shock' does it require to work and conversely what about going over pot holes, and setting it off as a false warning ?
g) If a person has to either ever activate it or indeed to turn it off, will they realise it is on in the first place ?
h) how 'fast' can it warn ?

I don't know about the electronics interfering with other frequencies, or devices, that would have to be investigated. You may need a license for this as it would be in the public domain. Also listing it publicly may prevent some investment potential and it is always wise to patent / copyright / trademark / etc products before making them public so I hope that you have already done this ?

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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 19:21 
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I'm pretty certain such systems are already well under development. I forget the name, something like "vehicle-to-vehicle networking"? Pretty much all new cars these days alreay have "shock sensors" (i,e, the airbag module) so as soon as one goes off, its very easy to transmit that fact to surrounding vehicles if you have a SIM card or some other on-board communications device. They are also working on less severe ones where heavy braking above a certain level of deceleration (same thing that's used to automatically activate the hazard lights on some vehicles) can also be the trigger to communicate with surrounding vehicles. There are a huge number of possibilities in this respect. Peugeot already have a system that can automatically phone the emergency services and automatically transmits the GPS location when the airbag is triggered. There are also variations on this theme that can (using the GPS) know the speed limit of the road and compare it with the vehicle's average speed to decide whether or not there's heavy traffic - it can then warn other similarly equipped vehicles in the vicinity to avoid that area...

...and so on.

I've heard it said that "infotainment" systems in cars are going to be the area of car design that sees the biggest and most rapid development in the next 10 years.


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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 10:21 
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It troubles me that as more control is provide to 'technical systems' that motorists will get lazy and rely on them. (Humans have a habit of testing things out and then from habit and eventual trust, rely on those devices.) So this can reduce road safety when they are relied upon and they malfunction or simply perform badly.
I firmly believe in dealing with the root cause: poorly trained road users. Improve the source and you slowly and gradually improve all areas of travelling.
From infotainment used to aid motorists travel (more than likely, due to lack of highway investment and development) I can see some benefit as long as distraction does not over-ride the benefits.
We do learn to deal with new 'things' and those that don't like them quite rightly don't use them. :)

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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 20:57 
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First thing 100m isn't really enough warning.

Secondly, I have one of those wireless doorbells, it doesn't work at the back of the house, never mind 100m away.


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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 20:02 
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not wanting to hijack this thread... aside form generally agreeing that dealing with driver inattention & distraction is probably the best route.. i'm sure there are many technical & implementation issues with such a system.

it did remind me of a related aftermarket system we've had some involvement with at work:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zXFOk5-cdk


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 00:04 
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SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
It troubles me that as more control is provide to 'technical systems' that motorists will get lazy and rely on them. (Humans have a habit of testing things out and then from habit and eventual trust, rely on those devices.) So this can reduce road safety when they are relied upon and they malfunction or simply perform badly.
I firmly believe in dealing with the root cause: poorly trained road users. Improve the source and you slowly and gradually improve all areas of travelling.
From infotainment used to aid motorists travel (more than likely, due to lack of highway investment and development) I can see some benefit as long as distraction does not over-ride the benefits.
We do learn to deal with new 'things' and those that don't like them quite rightly don't use them. :)


And yet despite that, we are seeing year-on-year reductions in accidents and KSIs! (It can't ALL be down to the SCPs can it?)! :wink:

I would suggest that if we're seeing such reductions, and driver training is not improving, then maybe they don't all learn to adapt to (and then ignore) in-vehicle safety features.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 21:01 
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Or is it that A&E is better at keeping people alive and patching them back up again afterwards?? :scratchchin:

In a similar vein, I reckon that the "Murder rate" is now at least ten times what it was before capital punishment was abolished, its just that the majority of Murder victims now no longer actually die! (Or at least not streight away anyway)

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 00:07 
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Dusty : But is there a date limit from injuries sustained after an attempt at murder - probably not ? However are the deterrents enough ?

Mole : Perhaps people become accustomed to the safety features and it barely needs 'learning' but just becomes a part of the whole system and so is treated as 'normal'.

ed_m : interesting. I must have missed that the first time round ! I think it might help large vehicles ... for smaller vehicles like cars someone surely would have to be half asleep to miss such nearby objects?
I can see it being helpful and it may avoid an accident which could of course be very good, but how sad if people were to become reliant upon it than look for themselves. If they were to miss something, then perhaps that would tell them a lot about their abilities - or lack of them.
Might people really 'need' this as standard?
What cost does it add to a vehicle ?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 09:11 
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Quote:
Dusty : But is there a date limit from injuries sustained after an attempt at murder - probably not ? However are the deterrents enough ?


Aparantly the "Year and a day" rule was abolished back in 96 (I am not really comfortable about this however, in much the same way as I am uncomfortable with the removal of the "double jepeordy" rule)

What I am getting at is that many victims of assault who would have died from their injuries 50 years ago are now saved by improved medical procedures. The follow on is that assailents seem much more casual about inflicting really serious injuries on their victims than they would have done in the past, basically because they no longer believe that the injuries are actually that serious and in any case, if they are there is now no longer the threat of the gallows!

Back in the 50's the Teds (And the Mods, Rockers etc) got a reputation for violence and indeed the use of knives, but at the same time they were (For the most part) VERY careful that they did not inflict potentially lethal injuries!

The Gallows may well not have been much of a deterrent for determined Murderers who planned their acts and thought they would get away with it but it did a Great Deal to deter the casual street Murders that seem commonplace today.

Anyway, back to the topic, A&E these days routinely saves the lives of accident victims who would have had little chance of survival 50 years ago whilst some of the reduction in road casualties over this period is certainly down to improved vehicle safety features one should not forget the contribtion made by improved medical care!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:51 
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Improved medical care changes some of the Kills to Serious Injuries but it can't change serious injuries to trivial injuries, so the overall number of KSIs won't be changed.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 13:35 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
Improved medical care changes some of the Kills to Serious Injuries ...

When did they find a cure for death :D
(I do know what you mean)

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 08:47 
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I can understand that there has to be a guide line to draw from to identify one specification from another, but when a hurt hand can be considered a 'serious injury' or alternatively when someone goes to hospital even when they are later (that day) released from hospital we have to surely call into question these guidelines.
A level of injury constructed with medical reference would seem more sensible on perhaps a 5 level system.
On what reference are you referring to, when an identified 'Kill', is then later reduced, (when they die within the specified 30 day period), which is surely clear and final?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:16 
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There are already plenty of medically-based and perfectly useful "trauma scoring systems"

http://www.trauma.org/archive/scores/index.html

(Strangely, the one the SCPs seem to use doesn't seem to be on there... :wink: )

Many (if not all) A&E departments record a "trauma score" for each incoming patient as a matter of course, for their own performance monitoring systems already. Quite why the SCPs had to develop their own is beyond me...

...or maybe it isn't! :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 14:03 
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Mole wrote:
There are already plenty of medically-based and perfectly useful "trauma scoring systems"


The Glascow scale - which we use in Mountain Rescue - is a very modern liberal scheme in that even a dead person gets three points :D

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