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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 23:59 
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I've lived in New Zealand for over five years (before that in the UK), and I still can't get used to a road rule that appears to cause accidents. Basically at junctions when you are turning, you have to give way to traffic coming from your right. So when turning left off a main road (yes we do drive on the left), you have to give way to traffic from the opposite direction that is turning right into the same road. This is all very well when there is no other traffic, but causes havoc when the roads are busy - frequently traffic behind the car wanting to turn left, but going straight on, can pass, and will then narrowly miss a car turning right. A friend of mine had somebody turn across his path because he had forgotten to cancel his left indicator, only narrowly avoiding an incident - and to make it all even worse if the junction is controlled by traffic lights with pedestrian lights - everyone has to give way to pedestrains if their lights are green.
To sum up, if turning left you have to:
1 Check the road you are going into is clear,
2 Check no one is turning right who you have to give way to
3 Check there isn't a 30 tonner right up your arse
4 Check there are no pedestrians crossing
all at the same time.
Just to confuse matters a bit more, if the road you are turning into is two lane.....then neither car has to give way, so it's another thing to add to the check list. Most drivers are unaware of this feature and give way "just in case" which gets me even more wound up.
The question I think I'm posing is "would such a rule improve road safety in the UK?", if not then the converse must be true and abandoning it would improve safety in NZ. Quite what American tourists make of all this is anybody's guess, not only do they have to drive on the other side but they have to comply with a rule that is devoid of logic. Forewarned is forearmed if you come here for a holiday, and don't ever park against the flow of traffic - that is also an offence.
Still, look on the bright side, petrol has reached the dizzying heights of 50p a litre.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 17:37 
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jaybkay wrote:
I've lived in New Zealand for over five years (before that in the UK), and I still can't get used to a road rule that appears to cause accidents.


I was driving in NZ last year and I know the rule you mean, and I wasn't quite sure what it was for either. I imagine there is a situation where it might help to reduce congestion a little, by allowing the backlog behind a right-turning driver to clear, but I don't remember that situation occurring while I was there.

I only forgot it once, and was given a dirty look by a taxi driver, though I was fairly well ahead of him at the junction, so it was bad manners rather than anything dangerous! My feeling is that it creates more problems than it solves.

The other thing I had to watch out for was pedestrians at traffic lights. Just as in the UK, pedestrians crossing a side road have priority over cars turning into the side road from the main road. (Not a lot of people know that, it sometimes seems!) But in the UK, if there are traffic lights at the junction, there are nearly always lights for the pedestrians as well. Not so in NZ - the lights may be green for you to turn, but take care you don't flatten any pedestrians while doing it...


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 08:46 
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The reason why our roads are inherently safer than most elsewhere is quite simple - we have straightforward 'rules'

"Give way to the right" UNLESS traffic coming from the right has to cross traffic going in the opposite direction.

Think about it - when joining a motorway or other class A road via a slipway - give way to the right; at a roundabout - give way to the right.

BUT traffic emerging from the right which has to cross a lane (or more) going the other way does NOT have right of way.

This NZ system would cause havoc here because it breaks this rule


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:25 
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The rule effectively means that freeflowing traffic has to give way to semi-stationary traffic. Not just the most intuitive!

Am I right in thinking that (in NZ) if you wish to turn right (across oncoming traffic) you are supposed to pull over to the left to allow any traffic behind to pass?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:49 
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samcro wrote:
Am I right in thinking that (in NZ) if you wish to turn right (across oncoming traffic) you are supposed to pull over to the left to allow any traffic behind to pass?

Don't know about NZ but that sounds like Melbourne's famous Hook Turn. On some junctions you see a sign like this:
Image
This means when turning right you pull over to the left across the mouth of the road on the left almost as if it was a layby, and when the lights change you then turn right. Sounds more complex than it is, and the only reason for it there is that if you move right when turning right at hook turn junctions you might get a tram up the jacksie :shock: . Nothing to do with holding up traffic behind you. In fact I imagine people turning left can be impeded if more than 2-3 cars move left for a hook turn. If there's a lot of traffic in a fairly confined space someone's going to get blocked by someone else. If the Kiwis do it too I wonder how they manage this. Only on T-junctions rather than crossroads? Or is the right turn rule that jaybkay mentioned in the OP designed to let people turn right and get out of the way quickly?

(Good flash animation of how the hook turn works here which shows it rather better than my lame explanation. It points out something that hadn't occured to me - you really need to keep an eye out for anyone jumping the lights from behind you. Watch out for the black car!)

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 20:46 
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[quote="jaybkay"]
and don't ever park against the flow of traffic - that is also an offence.
quote]

Thought that in UK it was also an offence to park against the flow of traffic, at least during the hours of darkness, but that it is generally ignored.----BIBs ,HELP.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 02:19 
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It is. I got a ticket for it about 10 years ago. The justification was that pointing the wrong way my rear reflectors weren't visible to any traffic coming towards my car, though given I'd parked in the middle of half a dozen other cars in a road with streetlights I'm not sure how much difference it would have made if I'd parked the right way round :wink: .

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 03:42 
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botach wrote:
Thought that in UK it was also an offence to park against the flow of traffic, at least during the hours of darkness, but that it is generally ignored.----BIBs ,HELP.


I was about to write that too!

222: You MUST NOT park on a road at night facing against the direction of the traffic flow unless in a recognised parking space.

The Highway Code wrote:
[at night]223: All vehicles MUST display parking lights when parked on a road or a lay-by on a road with a speed limit greater than 30 mph.

Yeah that happens.

The Highway Code wrote:
It is especially dangerous to park on the road in fog.

Glad they told me that, I thought the soft fluffy fog would cussion my car and stop any damage.

As for the New Zealand law, I would write something like "on a 2 lane single carageway road you must give way to a vehicle waiting to turn right from the opposite direction to you if it is blocking any other vehicles behind it and there is at least one vehicle directly behind you" would make sense. Maybe. Under most circumstances I won't give way to a car waiting to turn right if there is a gap behind me. (I don't think either of us would get there any quicker) Otherwise... if I'm in a good mood I'll concider it :)

It's nice to know these odd laws, like in Australia not only do you drive on the left but on a pavement you must also walk on the left!
And in England (or the whole UK?) it is legal for a man to urinate in public if he does so on the rear wheel of his vehicle and his right hand is on the vehicle. I wonder if that one is still current... :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 20:57 
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Ziltro"And in England (or the whole UK?) it is legal for a man to urinate in public if he does so on the rear wheel of his vehicle and his right hand is on the vehicle. I wonder if that one is still current... "

It's better under a bridge - out of sight and it upsets the trolls( being general, not personal) :evil:


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:00 
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I lived in Australia in the 1970s. The "give way to traffic turning right when you are turning left" applied in Victoria, but nowhere else (from memory). I recall once nearly getting smashed up in Melbourne taking my right of way. The other driver had seen my NSW plates and assumed that I would give way, as that was the rule where I came from!

However if it's a consistent rule I can't see any problem with it, as it helps traffic flow. The problem in Oz was that the rules varied between states.

The worst rule of all I came across was the "give way to the right" rule (when going straight on). Once I had to do an emergency stop from about 120 km/h as this muppet on the right stopped at the stop sign [1], looked right, then ambled out straight in front of me. (As he had "priority", of course there was no need for him to look left.) His passenger looked really terrified as I screeched to a halt in a shower of dust and pebbles on what passes for a hard shoulder over there. I must have missed crashing into the car by about a couple of feet. (Oops - sorry about the mixed units!) It was being phased out when I left, but this just made matters worse, as at some junctions you were supposed to give way to the right, and at others not. Almost every intersection on the Pacific Highway in Sydney had little piles of broken glass.

The really amusing one was this car that went the wrong way down a one way street, then took his "priority" as he plunged out on to the main road at a junction which was traffic light controlled. They had not thought to put a red light on the one way street!

[1] In those days, "give way" meant "you don't need to stop but you must give way (to traffic from the left)". "Stop" meant "you must stop but you then have the right of way over traffic from the left". No sign at all meant look right and if it's clear, just plunge out. :twisted:

Can anybody confirm that these idiotic rules have finally bitten the dust?

Brian


Last edited by nedsram on Wed Oct 26, 2005 21:22, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:35 
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nedsram wrote:
Can anybody confirm that these idiotic rules have finally bitten the dust?

as far as I'm aware, with the possible exception of the Victorian one, they never even existed. I've certainly never heard of them.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 18:24 
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Remember hearing that drivers out there were very friendly( from an old uncle who drove out there years ago). His recollection was that nobody liked to see a space of more than a car length between vehicles. If one was spotted someone jumped into it. Sometimes wonder if they sent that habit over here as revenge. :P ( tongue very much in cheek)


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 20:17 
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botach wrote:
Remember hearing that drivers out there were very friendly( from an old uncle who drove out there years ago). His recollection was that nobody liked to see a space of more than a car length between vehicles. If one was spotted someone jumped into it. Sometimes wonder if they sent that habit over here as revenge. :P ( tongue very much in cheek)

that's what happens when you've got places like victoria that enforce the limit to within 2mph. Just like having speed limiters in the cars.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 21:19 
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johnsher wrote:
as far as I'm aware, with the possible exception of the Victorian one, they never even existed. I've certainly never heard of them.


Then think again. As I lived there at the time, I think I am qualified to say what rules were in force!

Lets leave it at that. Not worth a flame war.

Brian


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 21:58 
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nedsram wrote:
Lets leave it at that. Not worth a flame war.

Brian

no, not worth a flame war but if you hadn't noticed, I AM Australian and learnt to drive there (and still drive there). The NZ right turn rule was apparently copied from an old Victorian one. I asked my mother and she hadn't heard of your give way/ stop rules either so I'll see if I can dig up someone over 60 for an opinion about the others.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 23:08 
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johnsher wrote:
nedsram wrote:
Lets leave it at that. Not worth a flame war.

Brian

no, not worth a flame war but if you hadn't noticed, I AM Australian and learnt to drive there (and still drive there). The NZ right turn rule was apparently copied from an old Victorian one. I asked my mother and she hadn't heard of your give way/ stop rules either so I'll see if I can dig up someone over 60 for an opinion about the others.


G'day. Sorry I hadn't figured out that you were Aussie. Commiserations on losing the Ashes. :lol: The "give way to the right" rule I was talking about certainly existed in NSW in the 1970s. In my driving test I was asked what to do if there was a vehicle ahead on a road to the right. Answer: "give way to it". From what you say I take it that it was got rid of many years ago. Thanks. That seems to answer my question!

BTW you wouldn't have had to be over 60 to have encountered that rule. Over 50 maybe. :) 'Scuse me - must rush off to collect my pension. :D

Brian


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 20:43 
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Quote:
losing the Ashes


I was born in England and have lived in England my entire life.

I never got into cricket but recently I discovered
these two glaring things...


1 - The "Ashes", for 8 or 9 times before the
last competition, was won by Australia every
time.

2 - So I thought, WOW, what a world dominating
force Australia must be, to acheive that level of
domination - then I find that only England and
Australia even take part in this bloody competition!
WHAT?! Just two teams? That makes it even
worse!


As an English man I am disgusted at how we can
even celebrate this "victory". Then, I am not into
cricket, good job really. Finding these two things
out has made me forget cricket exists. I always
thought we suck at it but no other competition
whatsoever apart from Oz?! Oh dear, again I am
ashamed to celebrate such a thing, where's the
real pride in it? Yeah if we thrash Oz for another
8 or 9 Ashes THEN I might be able to feel proud
of our team OK.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 21:31 
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LeveL - have you encountered De-caf? :lol:

You'll start Pogo off on the Americas Cup next!!

It's ONLY a game! :P :roll:

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 23:39 
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Whatever you do don't mention the Baseball World Series :shhh:

:lol:

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