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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 19:28 
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hobbes wrote:
Hairyben's tyre heaters - I had that idea this afternoon too. And brainstormed myself!. The hotter the tyres - the higher the tyre pressure - so an IR non-contact monitoring feedback loop would be required to keep it optimal - not rocket science. But how to get heat onto the tyres. Hot contact roller? - perhaps using the excess heat from the cats / manifold.


some kind of radiant electrical heater focused on the tyre mounted in he wing in front of the wheel? the power wouldn't be an issue as you'd just uprate the alternator and have full engine power to route to it, possibly with some kind of automated clutch slip, or a high-discharge battery (the one in my truck is rated at 700 cold crank amps because of the quickstart glow pugs.)

or- developing the ground effect mentioned earlier, remember those old alfa-romeo f1 cars that had huge fans to suck the car to the road? trouble is it'd need to be activated together with the deployment of side skirts and suspension hardened (which alone would help)

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 00:28 
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Entertaining as this discussion may be, is it really relevant - given that we should always drive at a speed from which we can stop in the distance we know to be clear?
The braking performance of modern cars is, in my opinion, more than adequate for anyone who's reasonably wide awake and alert.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 00:39 
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Pete317 wrote:
Entertaining as this discussion may be, is it really relevant - given that we should always drive at a speed from which we can stop in the distance we know to be clear?


sometimes that clear distance suddenly becomes occupied.

although one thing that has just occured is if your car had "super" brakes you're that much more likely to get stuffed up the ass.....

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 14:20 
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I understand that the Maclaren-Mercedes supercar has an airbrake that activates under vey heavy braking (which duly worked for TG's Stig).

As an alternative to 'super braking', why not have outsize air bags fitted to work on the outside of cars if an imminent impact is sensed.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 14:58 
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stackmonkey wrote:
I understand that the Maclaren-Mercedes supercar has an airbrake that activates under vey heavy braking (which duly worked for TG's Stig).

I've been pondering over that ever since this thread started. I wonder what contribution the airbrake made, and at what speed???

It was certainly an awe-inspiring demonstration that they gave with that car, where it managed to stop comfortably inside the recommended HC 60mph stopping distance, but with a starting speed of 120mph.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 18:24 
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stackmonkey wrote:
I understand that the Maclaren-Mercedes supercar has an airbrake that activates under vey heavy braking (which duly worked for TG's Stig).

As an alternative to 'super braking', why not have outsize air bags fitted to work on the outside of cars if an imminent impact is sensed.


the veyron spoiler also acts as an air brake under hard braking.

in theory the effect reduces with square of speed so probably not very beneficial at normal speeds (<60mph). that said every little helps... open the doors and pop the hatchback :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 20:01 
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Simple. You just increase the number of wheels, as seen on the Covini C6W:

Image

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 20:17 
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antera309 wrote:
Simple. You just increase the number of wheels, as seen on the Covini C6W:

Image


Curious machine.

But I don't believe having six wheels would significantly improve the braking because the 'total contact pressure' remains the same. It's LESS at each of the six wheels. A bit like having 5 * 20p instead of 2 * 50p.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 20:26 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
Curious machine.

But I don't believe having six wheels would significantly improve the braking because the 'total contact pressure' remains the same. It's LESS at each of the six wheels. A bit like having 5 * 20p instead of 2 * 50p.


curious? i'd go with silly :D

of course the famous 6 wheeler was the brabham F1 car..... but that was for aero reasons.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 20:33 
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ed_m wrote:
...of course the famous 6 wheeler was the brabham F1 car..... but that was for aero reasons.

<pedant mode>

Tyrrell. :)

</pedant mode>

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 20:37 
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... and Ferrari... and Williams... http://8w.forix.com/sixwheelers.html


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 20:42 
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Roger wrote:
... and Ferrari... and Williams... http://8w.forix.com/sixwheelers.html

Yes.. But the Tyrrell was the only one that actually raced - it even won the Swedish GP! :)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 09:11 
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sorry... knew brabham didnt sound quite right.

(says he sat in a garage at spa :roll: )


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:51 
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ed_m wrote:
sorry... knew brabham didnt sound quite right.

Brabham built the amazing "Fan Car" that was banned after one race (or possibly two..).

ed_m wrote:
(says he sat in a garage at spa :roll: )

Lucky b*gger! Mind you, is it standard Spa weather? ie p*ssing-down? :)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 13:33 
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pogo wrote:
ed_m wrote:
sorry... knew brabham didnt sound quite right.

Brabham built the amazing "Fan Car" that was banned after one race (or possibly two..).


two i think..... not least cos it hoovered all the grit off the track and spat it at the following car .. hmmm.. anti-tailgating anyone?

pogo wrote:
ed_m wrote:
(says he sat in a garage at spa :roll: )

Lucky b*gger! Mind you, is it standard Spa weather? ie p*ssing-down? :)


was yesterday, iffy start today but sunny now :D


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 Post subject: Re: Super braking
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:26 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
smeggy wrote:
* Forwards firing retro rocket
Imagine the situation where a pedestrian steps out in front of such an equipped vehicle: if aimed at the pedestrian, the resulting jet-blast needed to bring 2 tonnes to a quick halt, would send them flying at much greater velocities than the car was previously travelling at - this not being particularly advantageous when they land against brickwall type objects!!!! :D


:rotfl:


or you come to a perfect halt 1m before the pedestrian who is fried to a nice golden brown crisp :rotfl:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:31 
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(sort of a anti-hovercraft)

The "Super Vacum" fires and a skirt deploys a chemical reaction uses up all the air below the car as you stick to the road. :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 14:51 
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What about changing the mounting of the spare wheel so it can be brought into contact with the road in an emergency.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 13:21 
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Two further thoughts, both very different, so I'll deal with them in different posts:

1) In another thread... http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewt ... 2591#52591 got me thinking. Someone there asked about the effect of a "tea tray" spoiler.
pogo wrote:
Roger wrote:
Brookwood wrote:
I don't understand big tea trays bolted on top of boot lids. At what speed to they serve a purpose?


It varies from car to car. However, typically they come into their own at illegally high speeds (in this country) and actually make matters worse at 50mph. By careful design and typically muchj smaller "tea trays", they can be made to not do harm at lower speeds, cut in and do a minute amount of good at higher speeds. however, in almost all cases, they serve as decoration. I think. anyone got a different take?

I reckon that you're spot-on.

As aerodynamic "aids" they can work, but not really at legal speeds in this country. The odd small spoiler on the roof of some hatchbacks can help to keep the back window and tail lights clean but doesn't contribute anything to "downforce". I'm fairly sure that none of the decorative spoilers fitted to production cars ever have a positive effect on downforce, regardless of the speed, but may act to neutralise lift at high speed. The only figures that I have to hand at the moment are for the Porsche 911 in its "pre and post-Carrera" incarnations and they're quite strange because of the near-aerofoil shape of the early cars... At 150mph, without spoilers the car generates a shade over 400lbs of lift - ie almost 20% of the weight of the car - whereas with spoilers, lift is reduced to 37lbs. They also reduce drag somewhat so allow a higher top speed and/or better fuel consumption.

F1-type downforce (which is what I suppose is being implied by the marketing and styling departments of "adorned" road cars) is only achieved at the expense of massive aerodynamic drag, to the extent that at about 160-170mph, putting the car into neutral produces retardation of better than 1g without even touching the brakes! :)


Can this be exploited and an appropriate "tea tray" be deployed, if necessary enhanced with air, to give this effect without the resultant people-to-brick-wall-blower?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 13:23 
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Sorry to tease. I've decided against posting the second one as I think it may be patentable. I'll searcxh it out first.

As a taster ... It involves ... how can I put it.. ... anticipating driver reaction.


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