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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:46 
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Following on from this post: http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewt ... 6945#86945 , I thought maybe we could help inject some sense and understanding into the 'urban 4x4' debate.

Firstly I'd like to compile a list of reasons for buying an SUV. I don't mind if they are sensible, stupid or frivolous, but I would like to develop a comprehensive list of possible and probable reasons.

- Need a tow car
- Need offroad ability
- Need a large vehicle and the SUV was the best package
- It's a status symbol (general)
- It's a status symbol (my mate/neighbour/etc has one and...)
- The roads are so bad around here I need the strength/suspension
- The road humps are so bad around here I need the strength/suspension
- I believe I will be safer or my wife/kids will be safer
- I feel safer because of the higher driving position with associated improved vision
- Other people keep out of my way when I'm driving an SUV
- It projects an image of toughness
- It's a reflection/projection of the way I see myself
- It's just cool

Any more reason for the list? I do want to go somewhere with this, but if anyone wants to discuss the values and judgements involved, please start another thread.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:52 
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Subtle variations on a couple of your points:

- Perceived as good for adverse weather conditions - ice, snow, floods.
- Spacious, versatile family vehicle.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:56 
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- looks. (Nothing to do with status or anything like that, simply that the buyer genuinely thinks it looks good, "chunky" perhaps)
- perception of durability. It's rugged and heavily made, therefore it won't wear out or age as quickly as a "tinny little car"
- perceived good residual value.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:58 
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Yep, it's needed for driving over what the council call adequately maintained road surfaces. Basically, the only way it could be worse is if they set out to make them worse, because they aren't making them better.

Actually, they are making them worse; speed humps!


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:01 
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JT wrote:
Subtle variations on a couple of your points:

- Perceived as good for adverse weather conditions - ice, snow, floods.
- Spacious, versatile family vehicle.


Yes, and another subtle variation on your first there...

- 'Unstoppable' - I'll be able to travel whatever the conditions

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:03 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
JT wrote:
Subtle variations on a couple of your points:

- Perceived as good for adverse weather conditions - ice, snow, floods.
- Spacious, versatile family vehicle.


Yes, and another subtle variation on your first there...

- 'Unstoppable' - I'll be able to travel whatever the conditions

Like the US Mail, "Them kids must get through" (to school). :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:41 
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"I want a large, ostentatious car, but driving conditions nowadays are such that you can never really get the benefit from a traditional big saloon or estate."

"While an MPV would do all the same things, it would make me look like a wimp."

"I want to look like someone who doesn't follow the herd." (Despite all the publicity, I feel this still strongly applies - someone who drives even a Hyundai Tucson would be perceived as more interesting than someone who drives a Vectra)

In recent years, the car market has fragmented and people, especially private buyers, are much more concerned to make some kind of "statement" by their choice of vehicle.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:44 
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Small cars need the rubbish clearing out more often
More cubby holes to keep crud in
They didn't have many toys when they were young
They don't like slushy susspension
They like the big windscreens and higher view
More space for dogs
They like wasting money, infact the more money they waste the happier they feel.
They dont think that the wheel clamper has got a big enough clamp for thier tractor (but he has :lol: )

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:55 
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I bought a 4x4, a 1990 Landrover Defender 110 county (10 seat) diesel for these reasons in no particular order :-

I do a fair amount of home renovation and needed something that could transport
8x4 sheet materials (it has a roof rack)
Lap fence panels 6x4 go in the back, larger go on the roof

I wanted something to enable me to take my three dogs to the vets/beach/where ever, optionally with two children in tow

I wanted something that I could use to pick up my daughter and friends from parties, and be able to safely accomodate the 5 optional hangers on.

I wanted something to take recycling and garden waste to our local recycling center, I don't want this stuff in my "nice" car. We have a large garden and in the middle of summer can generate a vast amount of hedge and grass clippings.

So basically my 4x4 is a bulk carrier with an interior that I am not worried about damaging.

(hello btw)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 13:34 
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Another couple

- peer pressure
- kiddy pressure (Kirsty Jones's mum's got one, we should have one..")


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 19:28 
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For urban 4x4 drivers I'd say the real reason significant amounts of people buy them is the following

SafeSpeed wrote:
- It's a status symbol (general)
- Other people keep out of my way when I'm driving an SUV
- It projects an image of toughness


But its dressed up as:-

Quote:
- The roads are so bad around here I need the strength/suspension
- The road humps are so bad around here I need the strength/suspension
- I believe I will be safer or my wife/kids will be safer
- I feel safer because of the higher driving position with associated improved vision


If I can get around over pot holed roads quite happily and easily, throughout winter as well, then Im damn sure everyone else can! As for accidents, well Im definately in the primary safety camp!


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 19:46 
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Capri2.8i wrote:
For urban 4x4 drivers I'd say the real reason significant amounts of people buy them is the following

SafeSpeed wrote:
- It's a status symbol (general)
- Other people keep out of my way when I'm driving an SUV
- It projects an image of toughness

I think you're being rather uncharitable there, really. I would say the typical motivation for buying an urban 4x4 is:
  • I am not really very interested in driving
  • I want a big, solid car with a high driving position
  • I want something that looks a bit different
The real "status seekers" buy BMWs, Audis and Mercs, not Hyundai Santa Fes.

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If I can get around over pot holed roads quite happily and easily, throughout winter as well, then Im damn sure everyone else can! As for accidents, well Im definately in the primary safety camp!

But if you start arguing that people must choose cars on the basis of demonstrable "need", then you're offering a dangerous hostage to fortune. Does anyone *need* 2.0 litre plus engines? Also there's plenty of evidence of suspension components of ordinary cars being prematurely worn out because of repeated exposure to humps, even when driven carefully.

FWIW I don't own a 4x4 and have no plans to buy one.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 20:47 
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PeterE wrote:
I think you're being rather uncharitable there, really. I would say the typical motivation for buying an urban 4x4 is:
  • I am not really very interested in driving
  • I want a big, solid car with a high driving position
  • I want something that looks a bit different
The real "status seekers" buy BMWs, Audis and Mercs, not Hyundai Santa Fes.


Yes I'm sure some people choose them for something differnt and becasue it suits their lifestyle. But can you honestly say that nobody buys them to feel "tough" on the road? I personally know people who openly acknowledge this. What Im suggesting is that the propotion of urban buyers who choose a 4x4 for this reason is is quite high, even if they dont acknowledge it.

Quote:
But if you start arguing that people must choose cars on the basis of demonstrable "need", then you're offering a dangerous hostage to fortune. Does anyone *need* 2.0 litre plus engines? Also there's plenty of evidence of suspension components of ordinary cars being prematurely worn out because of repeated exposure to humps, even when driven carefully.

FWIW I don't own a 4x4 and have no plans to buy one.


What Im saying is that these are merely excuses to hide the real reason they bought one.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 20:58 
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I know a couple of people who have bought 4x4s after getting snowed in. Of course it didn't snow that heavily again during the years they owned the vehicle. And the snow they based the decision on was so bad that even the 4x4s were getting stuck.

As for why most people buy them, the same reason people climb mount everest "because they can".


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 21:07 
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Homer wrote:
I know a couple of people who have bought 4x4s after getting snowed in. Of course it didn't snow that heavily again during the years they owned the vehicle. And the snow they based the decision on was so bad that even the 4x4s were getting stuck.

As for why most people buy them, the same reason people climb mount everest "because they can".


Same every time we get a little or more snow - we see 4x4 in droves - and even in 4 wd most of them end up with at least one wheel shining up the snow , so that those that might be able to drive on the snow have even more problems trying to drive on ice. Pity tht these people don't engage brain before taking a 4wd out in snow . They seem to think that they need 4wd in Low ratio and loads of revs ,when all they need is common sense , perhaps 4wd in high and a lighter than normal right foot ( oh and treat the brake pedal as if it contained a dozen eggs between foot and pedal)Pity money don't breed sense.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 21:26 
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* A desire to stick two fingers up at the government/environmentalists?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 21:31 
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botach wrote:
Pity tht these people don't engage brain before taking a 4wd out in snow .

you mean like actually realising that a 4wd fashion accessory isn't going to perform particularly well on snow due to the ultra low profile summer tyres fitted to it?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 22:08 
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johnsher wrote:
you mean like actually realising that a 4wd fashion accessory isn't going to perform particularly well on snow due to the ultra low profile summer tyres fitted to it?


:yesyes: My mate complained to Land Rover when his brand new Range Rover got stuck in a slightly muddy field.... they said "Well you did specify the road going tyres......"

We still have a laugh about it now, getting a 4x4 stuck in a field. As I remember I think a Defender had to come and tow him out.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 23:20 
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FFS - even Paul seems to be on the bandwagon.

Let's turn this around - why on earth does anyone need more than 100 bhp per tonne? Why does anyone need anything bigger than a Chevrolet Matiz? Why on earth are motorists falling into the "divide and conquer" anti-motoring strategy?

Nuff said?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 23:25 
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willcove wrote:
FFS - even Paul seems to be on the bandwagon.

Let's turn this around - why on earth does anyone need more than 100 bhp per tonne? Why does anyone need anything bigger than a Chevrolet Matiz? Why on earth are motorists falling into the "divide and conquer" anti-motoring strategy?

Nuff said?

Quite agreed, too many people here are giving ammunition to the anti-4x4 campaign, which basically is just one aspect of the anti-car campaign.

Next it will be sports cars, executive cars etc.

People are quite entitled to say that they wouldn't buy a particular car for reasons x, y and z. But they shouldn't damn a whole class of cars, or a whole class of drivers.

A lot of people out there tar all BMW drivers with the same brush, remember.

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