Safe Speed Forums

my idea is that it becomes easier for temporary speed limits to be applied to road works, i.e if a 3 mile stretch of road is being worked on rather than slapping a blanket 30 "to protect the workforce" speedlimit along the whole section, why not allow the restriction to be imposed in stages, or even better to be altered dependant on if any work is being done.
I live in stoke on trent and the A500 has had a long term 30 limit imposed as they are improving two junctions, the problem is that there are rarely any work men present also the speed restiction extends well beyond the range of the actual work, surely doing this is actually tempting people to speed as a 30 limit that appears to have no purpose will be ignored, and the number of people who speed, and more pertinantly get caught speeding is rediculous.

There precious little evidence that these speed limits 'to protect the workforce' do any good.

But I agree with the basic suggestion - it's important that speed limits are sensible and necessary because when they are not you get a 'cry wolf' effect and worthwhile speed limits will be ignored.

A particular difficulty is that there must be a 'speed limit order' in place for a speed limit to be lawful. I don't believe that it's possible for a speed limit order to delegate responsibility for day to day or hour to hour adjustments to be made to the location of the speed limit.

The way the law is written, removing the speed limit signs makes a speed limit unenforceable, so it's possible to create a sort of 'ground level' adjustment by putting signs out or taking them away. But if -say- half the space specified in the speed limit order had signs, it's quite likely that the signs wouldn't be in accordance with the regulations and the entire speed limit would become unenforceable. The signing regulations are a bit of a minefield anyway.

Of course endless tweaking of speed limits and speed limit regulations won't make up for:

- drivers with bad attitdues
- drivers with insufficient skills
- illegal drivers (no licence, insurance, vehicle reg etc)
- drivers using inappropriate speeds within the speed limit
- drivers using extreme speeds in spite of the speed limit
- drivers not paying attention
- and so on...

In fact the flaws in speed limits as a road safety tool tend to become more stark and obvious the more you tweak.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Whilst I agree entirely with what Paul has said, I sympathise with DtN's frustration with the Stoke roadworks limits. They are enforced in the most cynical way I think I have ever seen, with vans present only at times when there is little traffic and in positions which cover traffic which is well away from any real roadwork activity.

I have often thought this should be the case. when the m62 A1 junction was been redone the 50mph zone just seamed to grow and grow and often there was noone working (at the times i travel) and certainly not accross the entire roadworks.

at first i found myself sticking ridgidly to the 50, a year and roadworks 10 times as long later, i couldnt say i was as disiplined, just a case of braking for the camera.

if people are working at roadworks i never speed. but when 3 lanes are open and noone is working its kindof frustrating to do 40/50 in what should be a 70 (well 80 really but thats for another topic!).

the electronic VSL signs should be used at roadworks in my opinion.

Selectively snipped.

I couldn't agree more. I have first hand experience of standing in a coned off lane as vehicles are driving past at 80/90+, even worse is an HGV, I've seen (and been) nearly sucked off my feet by these. Not at all fun.

However, the process of applying for temporary speed limits and the details that have to be complied with to make it enforceable are a right royal pain in the wotsit. If there was an easy way to apply for temporary limits so that they could be applied only where the work is actually taking place,* (even though there is a larger area coned off in preparation for the rest of the work) only at the times that work was taking place** then I think we could get everyone to accept that they were a good idea and obey them.

Well that's my rant for the evening!

* don't get me started on the SPECS on the A90 just now.

** of course, there would be occasions where the limit would be required with no works taking place, but the standard information sign could be used for this.