Safe Speed Forums

Right, probably not the best idea to offer a new suggestion in a new topic for a first post, but I have lurked these forums on and off for some time and have done a search-sorry if its come up before.

I dislike speed bumps for the same old reasons that are all over the site (uncomfy, wrecking suspension etc) like wise for cameras (money making, cause erratic behaviour of other drivers –sudden braking etc).

But there are roads that need to be policed and traffic made to slow down -outside schools etc. I have an idea instead of the usual cameras and speedbumps (not that Ive ever seen a camera outside a school –but that can be discussed elsewhere) my idea is this:

A camera that checks the speed of a vehicle if its going ‘too fast’ then it trips the traffic lights to go red forcing the driver to slow down. So if you drive by the school within the limit, then you don’t have to live in a sweat staring at your speedo thinking ‘if I get this wrong it will cost me’ or wrecking the car on speedbumps! –you can just concentrate on looking for kids that may step out into the road. –drive ‘too fast’ you have to stop –that’s your penalty. I would anticipate that there would be a red light camera so you cant beat the system (generally), although I am generally not a big fan of red light cameras because they cause a panic of hit the brakes hard or accelerate hard, but it’s the best I can think of right now!

Speed activated red lights are quite common in Spain and Portugal.

I haven't found much wrong with the idea, except the false message that a certain speed is safe.

Sounds far better than huimps or cameras.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

The problem with traffic lights is that where there are too many and they stay on red for no reason people have a tendency to go over on red. Red light cameras are general not cost-effective because the cost outweighs the number of convictions.

In the US they have 4 way stops in residential areas. At first I was against the idea but it does slow traffic down as you are stop-start all the time. Pedestians are limited to crossing at the junction but the always have right of way.

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Speed camera policy Kills

I have seen the speed activated lights in Portugal and I thought they were an interesting idea at the time.

One problem with them is that if you get overtaken while approaching the lights you get stopped but the overtaking car gets through before the lights change.

If they were placed in places that had need for variable limits such as schools for instance the lights might be useful. As no penalty is imposed the trigger speed could actually be below the speed limit at certain times to reinforce the idea that the safe speed is sometimes lower than the limit.

This could be extended to standard traffic lights, the tendancy for a lot of drivers is to accelerate towards a green light to get through before it changes. If this high speed was detected the lights could actually cycle to red early, though a delay in changing the opposing lights to green would be a good idea in this circumstance. Careful design would be needed to prevent a beating the lights type of contest.

P.S Very interesting site - I found it by following a link on a PH news article.

surely the addition of lights near a particular hazard provides a further distraction for the driver away from spotting the hazard....

I was thinking mainly of the drivers that do not notice the hazard in the first place and are therefore going too fast even if within the limit, most will still notice a red light. I am not so sure it would be more distracting than speed bumps, I find myself concentrating more on the speed bump as a hazard in it own right than what is going on around me. Schools often have the flashing orange lights anyway, I see your point though that less is more so to speak.

Just to clarify before you say that I am obviously going to fast if I have to brake for the speed bump. I am talking about roads that might be safe at say 20 or 30 mph but have 5-10mph max bumps. Lack of concentration on the road leads to a potential accident, lack of concentration on the speed bump leads to inevitable car damage.

Absolutely. So 'appropriate use' is at a 'gateway' to an area of increased hazard density. (Think rural village on faster road.)

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

yes this could well be the case, I do find lights less of a hazzrd than speed bumps and cameras though. Also, a number of schools already have lights for a pedestrian crossing outside, so the speed activation could be incorporated into the existing pedestrian crossing.

The trouble with making people stop at pointless red traffic lights is that they will get more willing and used to driving through them. Even if a red light camera was fitted you can usually find a part of the road which isn't connected to the sensors.

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Andrew.

If all speed cameras were placed at genuine hazard locations, they wouldn't be cost effective either...

I've noticed that in the central Belfast traffic light system, if you drive at around 25mph (which is usually a fairly safe speed for around the city) you won't get stopped as often, due to the timing on the lights. If you drive at 30 when you get stopped the first time, you get caught at the next set, where if you take it easy, you get through on green, usually... I know that that's not speed activated, and not really feasible for most areas that require it, but its just something I noticed...

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Mike

If the light stops you then the idea is that you were going too fast - so by definition not pointless. Making sure they were very carefully sited with well chosen speed trip levels (85-90th percentile) and most of all used sparingly would help. Used indiscriminately and with poorly thought out limits they would be just another speed bump/camera issue.

You are refering to seeing other people avoiding the red light camera sensors I hope.

any driver who can't judge their speed without having to constantly look at their speedo is either drunk or so incompetant that they should not be driving in the first place. Period.

So you can tell the difference between 30mph and 31mph without looking at your speedo?

After all, that 1mph is all it takes to break the sacred limit and become an extremely dangerous driver.

That's not true. All drivers have trouble with numerical speed judgement on occasions, for example after a high speed run.

Interestingly their judgement of appropriate speed and stopping distances isn't so affected - otherwise we'd have zillions of vehicles embedded in the roudabouts at the ends of motorways.

Drivers who are tone deaf, drivers of automatics (with slippy torque converters), and those in unfamiliar vehicles also find it hard.

And knowing your speed in miles per hour is absolutely no help in assessing the safe negotiation of the next hazard. But safe negotiation of hazards is the essence of safe driving...

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

more carefull planning like that sound like a good idea! the traffic light network is more complicated than most people would expect, but that’s not an excuss for it been wrong!

I remember some lights in leeds city centre where you could get through them all on green if you set of like you were at santa pod drag strip, careful planning to make this the other way round would have been a good idea! –I suspect this is often the case and is happening more, but I’ve not read anything.

Around here, West Bromwich, Walsall & Wolverhampton, we've got so many traffic lights now that they are often ignored by drivers. I don't condone it myself, but I can understand why people do it. Especially where the LA (bless them!) have put traffic lights in to control a junction where there was no problem!

When I'm crossing a junction where there's not been problems before, but had traffic lights put in (for no reason other than to inconvenience road users and make us all wish we were on public transport ) I actually have to wait quite a few seconds to allow all the red-light jumpers execute their manouvres... And strangely, this doesn't annoy me!?

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

Similarly, there are 2 sets of lights just prior to Jct 9 M6. The timing of the lights is deliberately set so that you can't get through both sets in one go - unless you really give it some berries...

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus