Safe Speed Forums

Converntional wisdom is that the driving test 'ensures basic competence'. But I'm starting to wonder if it does any such thing.

The real learning of the vital skills mostly comes after the driving test. (The 'vital skills' being: Observation, anticipation, planning, risk recognition, risk management.)

Clearly highly incompetent drivers sometimes pass the (really rather brief) driving test.

Clearly the driving test has quite a bit of focus on method rather than skill or safety. And how important is 'method' really?

Passing the driving test gives the message that you have the skills required to drive for the rest of your life. But that's just rubbish. It doesn't seem smart to risk giving this false message.

At the VERY LEAST we should start to teach that a driving test pass is nothing more than the first rung on the ladder of a driving career.

Is it possible that there's a better way to 'gatekeep' our roads from new drivers? Or a completely different kind of driving test?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

How about (long shot this) making driving instructors impartial agents of the state, and make the lessons the test, i.e. coursework instead of an exam?

If the impartiality of the instructor could be guaranteed by putting him/her on a salary, then he/she would just pass you when you were good and ready.

I like this - and wish it could work. however, the percentage of passes would sadly be dependent on the throughput - the greater the backlog the greater the pass rate. It would dumb down the "exam".

Like the "Good Old Days"

This is pretty much happened when My Grandmother learned to drive. She had about 10-15 hours of training and then the instructor said "Your on your own now!"

If this doesnt seem like much it is worth noting that around the same time young Men were given about the same level of training in aircraft before being sent out over Flanders to be shot at by the Red Baron!

Having said that.It didnt seem to do her any harm. In 60 years (!) of driving she only had one accident when she was rear ended by a

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

AFAIR, the last western european country to introduce driving test was Belgium. There figures indicated a considerable reduction in fatalities after that so perhaps even poor testing is better than none?

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Q. Are you a stupid fascist with limited reading skills or are you just a retard?

Sure. This is brainstorming.

But maybe there's a whole new approach based on some sort of psychological profiling?

People with the right 'attitude' could be given a full licence to go and get on with it.

People with the wrong 'attitude' could be sent to targetted training designed to make up for their specific shortfalls.

Maybe. I haven't got anywhere close to making a proposal, and I've always had a lot of faith in the driving test system. But maybe we can do much much better.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

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Q. Are you a stupid fascist with limited reading skills or are you just a retard?

Yeah. There's quite a lot like that. I think it has been proven that if you give people more skills in areas like car handling, they will tend to go out and use them to get into trouble. Often training has delivered more confidence than necessary skills.

And in most countries 'advanced training' is a proving ground / car handling course. And it simply doesn't work to reduce crash rates.

But I believe 'real' advanced training (in COAST type skills) to be hugely effective.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I like this a lot. However, a written paper wouldn't work, as the correct answers would soon get to be known. I wonder if "leaving school" profiles could be used retrospectively to grade the degree of driving test required?

Deleted duplicate post. I like it, but not that much ?

An idle thought on driving tests: How about getting the insurance companies to carry out the driving tests? That would do away with the ridiculous quota system (one would hope) Clearly there would need to be common standards but the companies could grade their tests dependent on the vehicle type, and one could not move on without having passed the more lowly tests.

Right --first - lets get back to basics -


The Driving tuition industry has been makinfg a fortune out of "PASSING THE TEST"
After my daughter passed her test i has occasion to drive her somewhere - roundabouts - DVLA instructions - STOP (her instructor s advice - look/ judge and if safe carry on ) ---same as IAM ,i believe - certainly same as practiced by all drivers i see .

Just one example of where the instructors have to give out bad advice ----

SO WHERE IS THE LINK BETWEEN GOOD DRIVING PRACTICE AND THE DSA???

Just where are the DVLA drivimg off a short pier??

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

The current system is definately about passing the test. I don't remember being taught even the most fundemental basics like the 2 second rule.

Something I've often thought about is this:
The preliminary 'pass' grants you a provisional entitlement under which you have restrictions to vehicle power/weight ratio, road class (no motorway driving), the time of day you can drive etc and must display P plates at all times. (I DON'T agree with speed restrictions like the ones seen in NI)

Before you can move on you must sit a second test - well more of an observed drive than a test. No menoeuvers (sp?) no emergency stop or any of that crap, just an observation of general driving skill. You must prove that you have learned and improved since the original test and have gained an understanding of road craft, observation and forward planning that is not acheiveable in the short space of time that you take your initial training in. Basically you must show that you have improved you skills. If this observed test is passed then you gain full entitlement.

If you do not 'convert' your provisional licence within a set period (say 2 years) then it is revoked.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Oh also, I think examiners in general should be expected to practise a little common sense rather than being so pedantic. If the student shows good general driving, but misses a gear shift or a signal or something minor then they shouldn't be penalised for it. There are plenty of situations out there that aren't actually covered by the HC and examiners must recognise that fact - as long as the student has acted safely and tried their best to comunicate to other road users what they are up to then I don't think the student should be marked down.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.