Safe Speed Forums

Hi all
I was stopped on the 16th July 2006 by a traffic cop armed with a speed gun on a 50mph road and he claims that I was doing 70mph as there is no way on this earth I was doing that speed as I was driving a 2002 4x4 Mitsubishi Shogun and also towing a very large three seater jet ski (almost the size of a small car) and also with three further passengers so no way was I doing 70mph I am a male and almost 50 years of age so have a little more sense, Also my car is fitted with the latest sat nav unit the MIO C710 to which monitors the speed limits on every road and sounds an alarm should you go over the limit and this alarm DID NOT sound. The police then sent me a letter some two to three weeks later stating the offence they claim I have done so I then wrote straight back explaining that there was no way I could of been doing that speed and that I would like to see some proof that the speed gun was aimed on my vehicle. I then heard no more until yesterday (Friday) almost six months later with a summons to appear in court or plead guilty through the post, and now the officer claims that not only was I speeding I was not wearing a seat belt (which I was) and I had no break lights (which I did have) but he states that the issue with the break lights and the seatbelt wasn’t worth reporting me for and just report me for the speeding (what is all that about). With the newer shoguns their are lights at the rear quarter panels that are purely for show and their are lower lights in the rear bumper that are the working lights why I have no idea but I am in the process of getting this in writing from Mitsubishis. Is their anybody that could advise me on this as this is really worrying me
Many Thanks
Ray

Hi there,

Could they mean lights on the trailer??

Anyway best thing you can do is get yourself over to www.pepipoo.com & ask the legal bods there.

Come back and let us know how you get on though! Good luck.

_________________
Wake me up when the revolution starts
STOP the Toll Tax http://www.traveltax.org.uk

Hi
Many thanks for your reply
The trailer lights were working as i always check these after pluging them in and setting off

Was it a 50mph road? Or a 50mph limit applied to vehicles towing?

What's the exact charge on the summons?

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Surely the 'it may harm your defence if you do not mention something you later rely on in court' should also apply to the cops?!

"Yes m'lud, and not only was he speeding, but he was on his phone, without a seatbelt, eating a Big Mac, smoking a cigarette, none of his lights were working, and he had four bald tyres. I didn't think to write it down at the time because it seemed trivial in relation to the speeding!"

Hi
It was a 50mph speed limmit road and the charges are order 1996 and section 89(1) of the road traffic regulation at 1984 and schedule 2 to the road traffic offenders at 1988
What ever all this means
Many Thanks
Ray

That argument won’t hold in court, unless you can get independent physical proof that combination is not capable of 70 (and you must prove you were carrying that combination at the time of your offence).

More significantly, do you know what speed you were doing? (or at least what was indicated on any of your instruments at the exact time of your alleged offence)


But was it on? Can you prove it was on and correctly functional on that road? Does it know that the limit was 50 on that road - are you sure the limit on that road is not higher for other vehicle types? I’m not trying to be awkward, I’m merely highlighting possible questions you could face in court should you wish to dispute the speed reading.


They must provide what is regarded as ‘best evidence’ to you should you dispute, in your case I suspect this will be in the form of a photo; however, this likely won't demonstrate proof of ‘aim’ (or lack of) of the speed reading equipment itself.

Do you know what kind of ‘gun’ you were caught with?

Hi
I have no idea what type of gun he had
So in lite of this what would you reccomend i should do?
Many Thanks
Ray

Write back to them demanding the relevant evidence as required under rules of disclosure - this would assume you go the 'not guilty' route.

If you are really sure that you were not exceeding 50 (or 55 anyway) then you should do so, you might find the SCP could silently drop the case. If not - it's your risk.

I don't think that'll wear in court. FWIW, I've got a Mk 2 2.8 (125ps) and can cruise (on French A-routes) at 80mph with 1400kg of caravan on the back. Your 2002 Mk 3 or 4 will have a lot more oomph than my ol' Paj and so should have no difficulty in physically achieving the claimed speed.


Two things here - satnav measures point-to-point times and calculates the speed based on the time taken between the two points. If there's a bend or two in the road (either vertically or horizontally) the system is likely to under read. Also, there is no legal requirement for the satnav to be accurate (unlike the requirements of the speed measurement device that plod used), and so in a fight between satnav and even an LTI20/20 dodgyscope, the speed gun will win in court.


Get thee to PePiPoo with all haste because there are things you need to do to obtain the evidence and some very dodgy tricks that a pratnership will try on - and PePiPoo probably offer the best advice on the 'net.


The reason why the wing lights might be dummies (although I thought that they worked) and why the real brake and side lights are in the bumper is the Construction and Use Regs, which require those lights to be visible from behind with the rear door open (the spare wheel obscures the offside wing cluster). UK is (AFAICT) the only country where this is needed, which explains why Pajeros don't have bumper lights but Shoddies do. In any case, if the trailer is as wide as the towcar, it is the trailer not the car that needs working brake lights.

Sorry to hear of your plight - but hope this is of some help.

BTW, you might want to pay a visit to POCUK (the owners club) if you're not already a member. Although we do rib Shoddy owners about the lack of chrome and toys, you'll be very welcome there

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Will

Oh no it doesn't.

There's an entirely separate sub-system for speed measurement based on doppler shift. Hence sub 1mph speed measurement accuracy is almost always available. There are issues about update rate, and during acceleration or braking GPS speed will lag true speed.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I'll bow to your superior knowledge while noting that mine appears to work in the way I described because a steady 50 mph according to my speedo over a flat, straight road is around 45 mph according to my GPS (Navigon 5 on a Fujitsu N-series PDA), while a steady 50 mph on my speedo over a twisting road varies and can drop to under 40 mph on my GPS.

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Will

Interesting...

I'm guessing, but the doppler thing must be based on velocity rather than speed, so may well be subject to acceleration lag effects when changing direction. Can anyone clear up this 'bit' for sure?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I know from experience this is extremely annoying, unless set to warn at the maximum 30mph over the limit.

Are you being prosecuted for the speeding or for failing to name the driver? If you never sent the NIP back how can they know you were driving.

I imagine they will drop the other offences if you put your hand up for the speeding, but Pepipoo is the place to get proper guidance.

Mine certainly seems to be a distance/time calculation, and lags slightly behind the speedometer when accelerating.

Did you see the police / laser? If so, did you note your actual speed? If so, did you mention this to the passengers, or did they note the speed themselves?

I am mounting a case over here in Australia on the basis that I knew the camera was there and I checked my speed on both the speedo and the GPS unit and they both indicated I was NOT exceeding the speed limit.

The police MUST prove BEYOND RESONABLE DOUBT that I was speeding and as both my wife and I noted the speed at the time of the alleged offence a judge has no other option in law than to find me not guilty.

BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT is the big ticket issue. My wife and my word using a GPS measurement tool AND the speedo -v- an unmanned, automated speed detection device. No brainer and I will win. There has already been at least two other cases I have documentation on where this defence has worked.

BTW - I WAS GENUINELY NOT SPEEDING - this is not an attempt to pervert the course of justice or to use a legal loophole. The speed camera was WRONG.

Our system of justice is based on the English system so it should be worth a go if you can genuinely state that you observed the GPS / Speedo at the time of the alleged offence.

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Ross

Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!