Safe Speed Forums

BLah Blah Blah

Why not actually employ Police Community Support Officers, to actually support the community of police officers,

Why not work it this way,
1)Proper copper makes an arrest,
2)takes prisoner to station,
3)hands over to custody Sgt.
4)makes dictaphone recording of all relevant information,
5)gives recording to Police support officer who types it up fills the forms etc,
6)Cop returns to duty,
7) next time cops in station he checks statement and signs if correct, or corrects errors and gives back to 5).

It's admin' support they need not psuedocop replacements,
When did you last offer to type up a statement?


If as you say,you've read the thread you may have been expecting me,
As I am now a paid up member, I feel entitled to intellectually dissect you, as I did with your fellow posters, if you continue to spout nonsense.

So far I have given you the benefit of the doubt (how often do you do that with your powers) due to your L plates.

fatboytim

The simple answer is ‘consistency’ the arresting officer needs to complet the paperwork for consistency, otherwise people get off with all sorts in court, like doing 110 on a motorway.

And for your information I took a statement from a woman who had a window smashed and a Sat Nav stolen this afternoon.

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Smeggy

It’s called administrative detections. This is down to PACE and HRA - A quick example.

Mrs Jones calls the police to say her boyfriend threw an apple at her out of anger. When the Officer arrives, Mrs Jones now says, yes he hit me with the apple, but he’s apologized now, forget about it, I just want to go out and pick up the kids.

The Officer cannot, he now MUST arrest Mr Jones for assault, book him in to custody, search him, interview him (after waiting an hour for his solicitor to turn up) then get a statement from the Aggrieved, in this case Mrs Jones who does not want to support a prosecution. This then gets crimed and CPS make the decision, if it’s a serious assault then they may press on anyway without the witness/aggrieved party.

But in this case it is NFA’d No Further Action, or the guy accepts a caution and it’s all over.

In the olden days if she wanted to press charges the bobbie would make an arrest, if she didn’t, the bobbie wouldn’t.

Just one example.

PCSOs
We are not exempt from this burocratic nonsense , we just make far less arrests, the arrests we do make are good old fashioned common law and civilian arrest (as they are the only arrest powers we have), which are very easy to crime. One statement and quick file and jobs-a-good’n.

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'Consistancy', just like the taped interview, suspects are subject to , they aren't typed up by the suspect or interviewing cop, it's the processing unit that types them and they are good for evidence.
'Consistancy', Just like Legal secretaries, type up defence solicitors dictated statements and briefs, and these are good for evidence.
'Consistancy' just like Lloyds, dealing rooms and stock exchanges use date stamped digital recordings of all telephone conversations/ deals, and these are good for evidence.

The arresting officer will 'complete' the paper work by signing it as a true record.



All on your own!, WELL DONE

I asked when you offered to type up a statement, maybe I should have made it clear, that I meant someone else's, like perhaps a proper policeman.


I should warn you, I have represented clients in the County Court, Magistrates Court, various Crown Courts and Judge in Chambers, with some considerable success, if you want legal argument.

Perhaps we should abolish all the Police Acts from 1876 to date, SOCA '02, Prevention of Terrorism Act, Road Traffic Acts,etc. etc.


In your answer to smeggy, again wrong, An Attested Constable, is by his Office, duty bound to use his discretion.

I suggest you get a copy of Butterworths and post back when you've read and understood it.















I look forward to hearing from you some time in the New Year.


Maybe you should think about the effect your attitude is having on my opinion of PCSO's, and how I will deal with the first of your psuedocop friends when he/she faces me from the witness box.

fatboytim

Z

You are a liar PCSO Bluecaps cannot , and are discouraged from making arrest s under common law !!!

Pity you werent about to catch the Sat NAV thief !!!

You lot are useless in the witness box !! police dont like putting you in the BOX cos you are all inexperienced, and not good at giving evidence, a good legal representative would eat you for dinner

Come on then how many arrests have you made ?

Have mentioned this before..will have to look back at my post..now where was it ???

That is the understatement of the year !!!!

I cant believe PCs are leaving to take a paycut of 50 % to become a PCSO Blue/black cap .... Thank god me not a PC..must be a bad job !!!

Thank god you were there to take the Sat Nav statement !! I feel safe sleeping in bed tonight knowing you are out there... what a joke you are..you have been a PCSO for about two weeks or something !!!

You make me laugh !!!

go back to :-

http://www.national-pcsos.co.uk/


[removed]


or try

http://www.policecommunitysupportoffice ... 448561a516

or

[removed]

where BIG Si lives !!!!!

I should feel sorry for you !!! but I dont you people are a public menace !! and dangerous with it !!! god help you !

So you’re a Defense Solicitor, yikes!

I love debating with Solicitors; many of my friends from Uni are solicitors.

My example is accurate and actually happened yesterday. Force policy often overrules Law (within the Police Service anyway) a good example of this is Law states force must only be used if it’s reasonable under the circs to use such force, (necessary, appropriate etc) where as force policy states that ALL Officers are to handcuff prisoners.

Using handcuffs is using force constitutes an assault. Is that a clear enough example for you or would you like me to draw you a picture.

I do not feel the Laws you stated should be abolished, where did I say that?

In my opinion (and experience) if we got rid of HRA and PACE things would drastically improve. But what do I know; I’m just a police employee working alongside Police Officers.

What do you know of ‘administrative detections’?

And by 'SOCA 02' do you mean 'SOCPA 05' ?

I hope you don’t make that simple mistake in court whilst you’re thrashing the opposition with your marvelous Legal knowledge.

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No, I am not. I just represent myself and family and friends. I couldn't live with the pay cut.



I know this only too well, as my poor typing is due to damage caused by handcuffs used during an unlawful arrest and false imprisonment, I am looking forward to my £5 figure+ compensation order.



You picked the laws you wanted repealed, I picked the Laws I want repealed.



I think you can guess how highly I value your opinion.



Administrative detections work on the basis that members of the public report crimes of such breathtaking triviality that they don't wish to make a formal complaint and press charges. The police then create a "crime" and set about investigating the matter as if there really was a formal complaint. When they gather enough evidence, they put all the papers in a file labelled "detected" and hey-presto, a solved crime.

In many forces, 20 to 30 per cent of detected crime now falls into the category of "administrative detections"; the sole purpose of this scandalous statistical sleight of hand is to fool the public into believing that the police are an effective crime-fighting organisations.



A copy and paste error, I note your grammar and spelling follow some unconventional rules.

My brain and mouth work very well, it's just my hands have difficulty at the moment.

You remind me of the Special who wrote in his statement I would be reported for "carless driving", oh how we laughed when he was in the witness box.

fatboytim

p.s. I'll give you a clue, google ICAC (Hongkong), This country desparately needs a similar organisation.

If you’re going to “intellectually dissect” me (your words), it’s probably better to mention real Acts ‘SOCA 2002’? And copying and pasting the meaning of ‘Administrative Detections’ is all good and well, in fact, it supports my initial point (please read my previous posts) that you now agree with, or do you still disagree??

Of course you don’t value my opinion. In your eyes I’m an ignorant PCSO who spends all day shopping for pies.

The reality is that I’m a well educated man. I have a Degree.

I value your opinion Fatboy, and your experience and knowledge is very important to your argument and position.

But you know little about policing, and why should you, you are not a police employee.

In Andy’s eyes I’m a fat Nazi, with no backbone. (Bless him)

We all know stereotyping and discriminating against a group of people is inherently wrong and extremely ignorant.
You can disagree with the position, but don’t assume all PCSOs are ignorant, neo-Nazi, fattys, who wouldn’t jump in a pond to save a drowning child.

Regarding ICAC, are you suggesting there is corruption within the Police Service? I thought we had the IPCC for all that.


How did you injure your hands? Why/how were you assaulted and falsely imprisoned?

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I think this is starting to get out of hand - again.

I might remind all contributors of Paul's first post in this thread:
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewt ... 544#103544



Complaints have been raised again. Please can everyone consider the tone of their post before posting. Thank you.

Z

I suspect that you are PCSO 0879..

Mike !!!!!!!!!!!

Are you ???????? z , Mike PCSO 0879 ???

Your post sound the same ..your words.. etc

I’m not a liar Andy, that is a personal attack.

ANY PERSON has the power to make a citizens arrest, I am ‘a person’.

And Fatboytim, I didn’t realise your full name had the Tim bit at the end, I referred to you as ‘fatboy’ in a post or two, which on reflection could be construed as offensive, which was never my intention. So I apologise and will refer to you as Tim from now on, if that’s ok with you.

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Tim!

I’ve been reading back over your posts and the quote below where you press big_si over his ‘SOCPA’ typo(page 8), you really pressed him on that, big time.

Then you did the same thing yourself on this page.

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I really can't be arsed going thru the thread again as that was then, this is now.

I admitted immediately, (in my next post), that I made an error/mistake, I also gave the reason/explanation/excuse, I am fully prepared to accept the consequences of my actions,
It appears you want the HRA and PACE abolished so you can avoid the consequences of yours.

To be clear, I am sorry, I apolologise, for my basic mistake.
I won't excalate this by pointing out any errors in your posts.

You do remind me of Mike, when asked a difficult question, you change the line of attack without dealing with the issues raised.

To try and return this to a reasonable discussion, could you give your views on my post, now 'consistancy' has been dealt with, to remind you;



One more question, could you describe a situation were it would be better for PCSO to attend than a Constable.

fatboytim

I can to :-

Issue DODGY speeding tickets ( with help from a PC)

Issue parking tickets outside hospitals... or anywhere else the sick and vunerable may have parked

attend an incident no self respecting PC will attend.... cos they dont like dealing with youths causing annoyance..and stuff like that !!

They still cant tell me how POLICE Communtiy Support involves two bluecaps standing with a laser...messing up ..with a PC writing FPNs out for them !! as described ..

they not likely to be able to give you answer are you MIKE !!! Z or whoever you are today !!!!

Andy

Once again I've placed you on Final warning. The only reason I've not summarily banned you is the previous FW was quite a while ago.

I invite you to go back and edit the ad hominem post and to issue an apology.

The message you're generally trying to deliver is heard loud and clear, but playing the same record over and over again at a loud volume alienates you not only from the target of your venom but also your sympathisers.

Personal attacks will not be tolerated and the next one will find your posting rights removed.

I’m pointing out an error you made with SOCPA because you gave another member a really hard time about, yes you’ve guessed it, making an error with SOCPA.

Just thought that was a bit ironic, no need to apologies.

Anyway, with that out the way, and after we agree with administrative detections.
On to consistency.

Ok, so lets go through this one at a time –

1)Proper copper makes an arrest, (fine so far)
2)takes prisoner to station, (after he/she can find a van and someone to drive it yep with you so far)
3)hands over to custody Sgt. (hands over? What like ‘here you go, I’m off’) don’t think the Sgt would like that very much, how many Sgts do you think are at custody to take all these prisoners?)
4)makes dictaphone recording of all relevant information, (so who searches the prisoner? Finger prints the prisoner? Who takes a DNA sample from the prisoner? Who photographs the prisoner? Who interviews the prisoner? Who then bags up all their clothing and personal belongings, money and jewelry and logs all their property, bags it and locks it away?Who takes the statement from all the witness's with first hand knowledge? Who then charges the prisoner? Who then bails the prisoner? Who then goes back to nick the prisoner again for failing to sign on bail, or breach of bail conditions, or failing to attend court, and go through the whole process again)
5)gives recording to Police support officer who types it up fills the forms etc, (granted this may save an hour, but PCSOs already do this in many areas, take the initial crime report and do a few reports that don’t require the OIC to take or input)
6)Cop returns to duty, four/five hours later)
7) next time cops in station he checks statement and signs if correct, or corrects errors and gives back to 5). No, no, no, no, no. The OIC must charge or release the prisoner, without a statement this cannot be done. The OIC wouldn’t be able to ‘come back later and check any errors and sign’ he would have to get it done there and then. Or he couldn’t charge the offender, he would have to do the interviewing himself, he did the arresting, he saw what went on. Are you suggesting we de-skill all police officers so all they do is walk around, arrest and hand over to a team of (highly paid and well trained) people to do all the processing all the skilled Law input, so we are effectively left with PCs who have no skills (isn’t that your argument against PCSOs??) and only know how to arrest someone and transport them to custody then go back out again, with no real knowledge of the legal ins and outs, leading to negative outcomes at court etc.

It’s far more complicated than, nick them, hand them over, then back out on the beat.
If it were only that simple.




Any situation where the person would not need to be arrested.
The fact that PCSOs have more time to spend giving better witness/victim aftercare and support is an obvious advantage.

Z

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Roger,

have sent you a PM...

With respect to you...

I am not likely to ever apologise to any PCSO ever...

I will apologise to you for not making a financial contribution to Safe Speed until now..that I do sincerely apologise for, long overdue sorry ! .. apologise to a PCSO ..never !!

Can I have my little green member badge..please..No BLUE badges though ! Please !

especially when they write stuff like this top my mailbox

Confirmed by Smeggy as authenticate



IS This not calling me a liar ????????



Sorry no apology ..not ever .. for the reason stated they are allowed to call me.... as anyone of them paid a penny to safe speed ..NO probably NO

No wonder PCSOs.. want me banned !!!!!!!!! 30000 hits here and type in PCSO Bluecaps on the search engine ..and YIKES !!!

http://uk.search.yahoo.com/search?p=pcs ... TF-8&rd=r1

OOPPPPsssssss

What is concerning though is that the subject field says ‘Re: Wasters’ that means a reply to a PM from you Andy, was titled Wasters??

I wonder what that first PM to Si said, that would provoke an offensive reply like that.

Nonetheless for abusive and offensive language like that Big_Si should be banned, if he isn’t already.

I must also stress there is NO proof whatsoever that Si is in fact a PCSO or even a police employee, there is no way of confirming this.


Andy, what did the high ranking officer say to your complaint, is it common practice to use PCSOs? Or was it a one off? I’m quite interested in whether it is actual lawful to work the camera and stop vehicles?

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He said it himself.

Not repeating myself for a PCSO.. readback..its all here

LOOK !!!!!




You know full well BIG Si is a PCSO... he likes to tell everyone...

Do REAL policemen have fan club websites ????

Loads of PCSO sites ...ego ???[/quote]