Safe Speed Forums

Hi all,

My son, in my car was up in Leeds & parked in Cross York Street. He got a ticket. The street is full of building works and as a result the yellow lines have been worn away/covered with rubbish, there are no signs to be seen (although aparently it's in a restricted area with signage as it's entered). It's a quiet street & there are even skips etc dumped in the road. He took pictures. Anyway I wrote to them & told them they could get stuffed as the lines were not visible. They cancelled the ticket.

So a month later off he goes to Leeds again and parked in the same road for the whole weekend..... He got 2 tickets! One at 12:17 on 11/7 the next 8:56 on 12/7. The second one nicely placed near the first one. So again we told them to stick them where the sun don't shine. This time they said no & I've now received 2 NTOs (probably because I told them they were commiting fraud as they knew perfectly well the regulations were not being complied with).

Can someone point me to the legislation for yellow lines/signage?

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Wake me up when the revolution starts
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Can't help wit the regs. HOWEVER..

I reckon you're on a sticky wicket this time.

First time around neither of you knew of the restriction. Second time around you both did, and deliberately tried it on.

But surely just because we knew that they wanted that area to be restricted doesn't in any way absolve them from having to make sure the markings comply with the regulations - ie be visible?

_________________
Wake me up when the revolution starts
STOP the Toll Tax http://www.traveltax.org.uk

Of course it doesn't - if anyone else had parked there, they could legitimately (once) adopt the same stance you adopted. Second time though it is, IMHO, stretching a point.

Can't agree with that Roger, (but remember it was my son not me! I probably wouldn't have gone back there..)

The law's the law. If they're not complying with regulations to make it no parking, then whatever they say there is no restriction.

His is the middle car in the picture....

http://www.maid2clean.org.uk/parking.jpg

_________________
Wake me up when the revolution starts
STOP the Toll Tax http://www.traveltax.org.uk

I took that picture into Irfanview, wound brightness down to -122, contrast up to +50 and sarturation up to 120. This brings out the yellow lines easily - so I am pretty sure that your son would have seen the yellow lines when he parked up.

Don't get me wrong though - restricting parking at that point is sheer bloody-minded if they are permitting the skip. Having said that, I'd not leave my own ride so close to a place where people are tossing ironmongery around...

I see what you mean - I just had a play in photoshop. Ah well I don't suppose the judge is allowed to play with image software in court!!!

That's why I want to see the regs, I know they have to be unbroken & terminated properly, I want to see what it says about visibility. Also signage. If you have another look at the picture there are no signs at all.

These bloody jobsworths really wind me up, to cap it all he was there again at the weekend loading the car & he broke down in the very same spot. Whilst he's waiting for the AA along comes Adolf. He says he's broken down & the reply is he'll give him till he comes round again then he'll "have" to ticket him but the AA receipt will get him off...

I'm also getting pretty stubborn about it as well (as if you couldn't tell..), it starts at £30, then goes up to £70 and on the NtO there's a threat of £105 if I don't pay up. Theiving bastards.

_________________
Wake me up when the revolution starts
STOP the Toll Tax http://www.traveltax.org.uk

Try this... http://www.havering.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=13276

I cannot see the lines contiuously, nor any signage. Is it a cul de sac?
Signs on poles as you enter a road are notoriously difficult to see if somebody steps off the kerb in front of you!

As far as I am aware (I am chasing our council on this re. a local road) the lines not only have to be continuous, and capped, but have to be a certain width too.
A single line also has to have a qualifying sign denoting times/terms

Try Neil Heron's pages - I think he has been to Leeds and kicked up a stink over their lines.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

They are not "double yellow lines" they are "a road marking to diagram 1028.1".

There's a bit of case law saying, basically, that even if a sign looks right that's not good enough, it must be right.

Assuming this is in a Controlled Parking Zone there are more requirements - the CPZ must have signs either side of every entrance to the zone. Every edge of every road within the CPZ must have double/single yellow lines/no loading blips or a marked parking bay. (presumably if any part of the zone doesn't have this the entire zone isn't enforceable?)

If we have to obey their laws, they have to obey their laws too.

Also the PCN and NTO have to be worded correctly or they aren't legally recognised.
And the restriction (CPZ) is actually a document. This document will specify what restrictions apply where, and where the signs should go.
Ask the council for a copy?

TSRGD 2002
Single/double yellow lines:
1017 - 1018.1

The people on PepiPoo have more information.

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Andrew.

Well I wrote off to them, told them I had photos of the area & asked for a copy of the traffic order so i could check if they complied.

Lo and behold they decided not to send me the traffic order but instead - "due to building works the lines had been temporarily covered however they are still enforceable. I am prepared on this occassion to waive the penalty however should a similar situation occur..."

What really gets to me about these jobsworths is that they're incapable of saying "yes you're right - sorry". And I'd bet that even now there's a warden walking up that street issuing illegal fines.

_________________
Wake me up when the revolution starts
STOP the Toll Tax http://www.traveltax.org.uk

No signs, no lines, no fines.

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

Cannot recall where I saw it now . but I thought some one had challenged the courts as of yesterday .. for a definitive ruling over parking and plethora of bye-laws designed to make cash.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.