Safe Speed Forums

Er, do you want to be admitting that in public? Isn't that perjury? Should I be phoning the police?

If they inflict the [b]same]/b] damage .. then surely they should receive the same punishment? for the injuries caused?





Courts can take various facts into account. Car drivers face a statutory automatic 12 month ban. A court has the right to increase this if second/third offence.. or consumed more than twice the legal limit .. or driving a HGV or a bus or coach . or train or piloting a plane. They can even imprison in very serious cases.

But for the peds and the cyclists .. we can always rely on "public order/offences against the person" and so on if they cause injury or danger to to selves/others. We would not be doing our job if we took no action.


Have already provided a link to the RTA 1988 with reference to s 28-31. I could also refer to s12 of the Licensing Act 1872 which created the offence of being drunk in charge of a horse/horse/carriage/ or cattle on the public highway or other public place when drunk.

Offence carries a fine or ONE MONTH'S IMPRISONMENT.

This was applied to cyclists WHEELING A Bicycle in 1951 (Corkery v Carpenter)

This ancient law is acknowledged in S5 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 which provides an exemption for people charged with other drink/drug related driving offences

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I totally and utterly disagree.

So does the legal system apparently.

You think gettingon a pushbike after six pints is equivilent to getting in a car after six pints?

But a pushbike is unlikely to cause the same injuries as a car. Riding into a bus queue at top speed will cause a lot of bruises and maybe the odd broken limb. Doing it in a car will result in multiple fatalities. I can think of no instance where an errant cyclist has caused mulitple deaths.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I don't know how the legal system would tot up such a case.

Presumably it would do you for the injuries caused to the pedestrain, then add on the potential for harm, and getting in a car drunk would cost more than getting on a cycle drunk (even if the injury to the pedestrian "cost" the same in both situations). Result, drunk car driver who casues the same injuries as a drunk cyclist gets a longer prison sentance, and that's right IMO.

I think I'm with weepej on this one.
Drunk pedestrians and cyclists take their own life into their hands; the risk is theirs alone. Drunk drivers take everyone elses lives into their hands.
For me, it is about the risk forced upon others; the outcome being a bad one is usually though luck or misfortune.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Yes .. you do not get into a car knowing you are unfit to do so. My own wife knows this Does not make it any easier for her though .. even though she knows it's just temporary and a mere precaution and has 9K posts saying one has a responsibilty here

But my wife once skied down a mountain slope at age 18 after champagne on her birthday. Her father deemed this to be outrageous and removed her from the named drivers on insurance policies .. cut her allowance and refused to fund her run up to driving test for a month.

I think he was right.

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If you cause GBH to someone else .. then the legal system will hit you hard .. so how you cause it.

If you cycle into the path of a sober person whilst drunk.. would that be responsible behaviour on your part? A court once found a driver innocent of dangerous driving despite being twice the speed limit because the victim was very drunk at the time.

Courts do take into account and I would not dream of cycling or driving after so much booze.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Surely if you injure someone to the exact same extent - you get the same sentence. I do not think the victims would agree with you

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Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
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But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

No.. I do not want a drunk staggering or cycling in front of me. I would suggest better education. I am with the GMC on higher taxes on booze and a return to licencing hours of sale

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If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

Maybe not . but if you are drunk in charge of a bicycley and knowingly so . and injure someone as a result .. then you are just as guilty in mind as the driver.

Apart from that .. as the more vulnerable road user ..that druinken cyclist stands more chance of making a fatal error of judgement.

I happen to think all should be very careful over drink and driving/cycling/ I do neither after consuming my claret

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Its actually a statutory obligation rather than a matter of choice. For a first offence of :-

failing to provide a specimen after driving or attempting to drive
driving or attempting to drive with excess alcohol
driving or attempting to drive while unfit due to drugs

you get a minimum 12 month ban, a repeat of any of those, or causing death by careless driving while under the influence of alcohol or drugs, within 10 years bumps the minimum ban up to 3 years.

The minimum 12 months becomes 2 years if there have been two or more bans of 56 days or more, for any offence, in the preceding 3 years.

There is a sliding scale with length of ban going up with increasing alcohol level. By the time you get to twice the limit you are in for a ban of around 18 months. When you get to three and a half times the limit, the bench must consider custody together with a ban of about 30 months.. A life ban is available for repeat offenders.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

But my response was to the suggestion that a cyclist that injured somebody whilst drunk would get less of a punishment than a drunk car driver who caused the same injuries and that this was viewed as unfair. I.e. the poster suggested that cyclist should get the same punishment as the car driver/ the car driver should get the same as the cyclist (I think the latter was being suggested myself).

However, I'm stating it's right that the car driver gets more of a punishment than the cyclist in the exact same circumstances; don't you agree?

Again, both are bad, both are guilty, but the worse offence is that of the car driver as the potential to seriously injure or kill is much greater.

You responses suggest you don't agree, am I correct in thinkning this?

Do you think so?

I did suggest earlier maybe you get the same sentence for that, but on top of that the car driver get's more for creating a potentially more hazardous situation.



Possibly. Dunno 'bout you though but to my my somebody getting on a cycle drunk is not as "bad" as somebody getting in a car drunk.

Presumably by the size and type of vehicle too.

I imagine a car driver at twice the legal limit would get less of a punishment than an HGV driver?

Not necessarily .. but me and Ted would have to ask Ted's sisters who are trainee magistrates with access to the bench book.

From the cases I've given evidence in in the past .. - amount of booze consumed seems to override the size of vehicle. You can compare this with the penalties handed down to pilots of passenger planes who failed breath tests per the press.

If the injuries caused are identical .. then this would suggest the driver perhaps set off at low speed from a car park. We can ban a driver for sleeping it off in a car park .. if the keys are on his person or within easy reach by the way.

A drunken cyclist can face the penalties as mentioned per the quoted and linked laws and case precedent as quoted. If they cause injury to the person .. then they will be charged accordingly per the relevant law of the land ..backed by CPS.. especially if severe injuries are inflicted.

A fair society cannot allow any person to get away with deliberate irresponsible behaviour. Being drunk/drugged/fatigued etc and deliberately choosing to be in charge of anything on wheels would be so. I think we have to make it plain via the courts that society as a whole disapproves.. don't you?

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

One could argue that if a cyclist causes the same injuries as a motorist he must have been acting more recklessly and deserves a greater punishment. It is almost impossible to kill a pedestrian with a carefully ridden bicycle; very easy with a motor-car

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Thank you It would be almost impossible as you say .. about 3% say.

If a car driver collides at 5 mph on a pub car park and collides with a person .. resulting in their hitting their head - seriously and fatally - then there are inevitably charges to answer.

If the cyclist (well squiffy) on his way home from the pub collides with a pedestrian - causing similar injuries .. then his behaviour could be held to be equally dangerous by a court - based on the evidence presented.


http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/uk ... -pb7-l1g28

Pgh 28-31.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

But do you think the cyclist should receive a commensurate tariff?

Well yes .. because although the cyclist who shove Ted was not drunk.. he still caused him SI at the time Had Ted landed a couple of centimetre differently _ I may have been widowed.

By the way .. never drink und drive und if you want to sleep in car .. then make sure you have no direct access to keys.

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