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 Post subject: Its easy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 19:26 
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I've found the perfect way to keep safe and keep my licence, Pay good attention to the road obey the limits, (now if you do the former you will find the latter easy!!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 19:55 
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Are you winding us up?

Clearly paying attention to the road is extremely important, but it's no where near enough. Drivers must also recognise risk and act to ensure that the level of risk is aways controlled to a low level.

'Obeying the limits' (I presume you mean the speed limits) has almost nothing to do with it.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 20:32 
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So if I set my cruise control to 30mph in a 30mph zone am I instantly safer?

Yes it sounds simplistic, but that is similar to what you said.

Yes your chances of getting a ticket are reduced (the cameras, or other methods of detection are flawed). But just cos you obey the limits, you are not safer.

It is a shame you appear to be trolling.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 21:25 
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ree.t wrote:
It is a shame you appear to be trolling.

And posting from work too, from the look of his e-mail address.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 22:19 
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CSCP is it?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 22:22 
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Rules are written by humans.
Humans make mistakes.
Why should anyone obey rules issued for the wrong reasons? ;)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 22:24 
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Because they're still the rules, but theres no reason we shouldn't rail against them!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 22:29 
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As soon as I saw the subject line, I knew exactly what the OP was going to say. Don't know why I bothered opening the topic at all. Still, let's hope the OP is receptive. He must agree that something isn't right at the moment, considering the loss of trend in accident reductions.

And no, by "something isn't right", I didn't mean "Drivers are still speeding". That's a given, as it always will be, and it has very little if anything to do with road safety.

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"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)


Last edited by bombus on Tue Sep 04, 2007 06:28, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 22:33 
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They are only the rules because someone says they are.

The other thing I could say is, the rules only apply to this country. Other countries have different rules. They can't all be right. They can all be wrong.

And yeah, I also guessed that this was a "stick to the speed limit and you will be legal! Legal equals safe!" kind of post, but I'm bored and lonely so I might as well write stuff. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Its easy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 23:07 
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safetyman wrote:
I've found the perfect way to keep safe and keep my licence, Pay good attention to the road obey the limits, (now if you do the former you will find the latter easy!!

Would you care to remind us exactly what portion of crashes involve any driver being over the speed limit as a contributing factor?


You won't answer so I'll do it for you: 5% (DFT transstats 612594)


So how does that tie in with your deduction?

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 Post subject: Re: Its easy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 23:11 
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safetyman wrote:
I've found the perfect way to keep safe and keep my licence, Pay good attention to the road obey the limits, (now if you do the former you will find the latter easy!!

This also assumes that many people only support the SafeSpeed campaign because they are disgruntled at having been caught speeding. However, in reality many of the regulars have clean licences of many years' standing (26 in my case).

My concern is not for my own licence but for the overall negative effect on road safety of the "speed kills" mania.

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Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 00:02 
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Folks, we have no evidence that this poster is 'trolling' as such.

He's registered with a local authority email address and it may well be that he is entirely sincere.

We need to give new users the benefit of the doubt when we can and when it is reasonable to do so.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 06:21 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
Folks, we have no evidence that this poster is 'trolling' as such.

He's registered with a local authority email address and it may well be that he is entirely sincere.

We need to give new users the benefit of the doubt when we can and when it is reasonable to do so.

Fair enough. It looked like a standard "stirring" post to me (and the less than perfect punctuation didn't help), but perhaps not. It's depressing that anyone in authority could have such an apparently unenlightened and simplistic view of road safety, but I don't suppose that's news to most of us. Still, if he's genuinely prepared to listen to reason, all to the good.

Perhaps "safetyman" could explain how he is dealing with the 95+% of accidents which aren't caused by otherwise law abiding drivers exceeding a speed limit. What ideas does he have other than speed measuring devices and obstructions that are supposed to "slow us down"? It's an amazing coincidence that these days all "road safety" measures just happen to make driving less pleasant. I'm sure "safetyman" agrees that road safety should always be exclusively about safety, and not discouraging car use. You can't pursue both agendas optimally, and there are lives at stake.

And incidentally, as PeterE's signature alludes to, there's no such thing as a remotely competent driver who hasn't exceeded a speed limit. Councillors, politicians (those who deign to drive), off-duty police officers, magistrates and even "safety" camera pratnership employees all speed frequently, even to meetings where they demonise "speeding", and to court where they pretend to be outraged at some poor sod who's done 35mph at the wrong time on a road that was NSL until last year. The whole thing is utterly ridiculous. Preposterous. Demented. Throughout history, in all the most foul, draconian and brutal regimes, I doubt we've ever seen such incredible, blatant, absurd hypocrisy from the authorities. A waste of so many millions of people's lives, time, money and careers, and yet still, unbelievably, it goes on, and some people blindly defend it. Cameras don't work, they never have, and they never will, because they can't, being the wrong tool for the job. How much more suffering does there have to be?

The charade must stop right now and real road safety, based on skill and attitude rather than rules and baseless preaching, must start. Those with vested interests (Callaous bastards that they are, and they know who they are) will never be persuaded, but there are still far too many who really believe that the current regime works, and they need to be educated ASAP, starting hopefully with "safetyman", who hopefully views people's lives as being more important than the possibility of losing face if he changes his mind about cameras et al.

I apologise for any unintentional typing mistakes in this post. You know how I'm always screwing up on that front.

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"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 18:47 
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speed kills, the 1st part of the risk assesment is the speed limit, thats the start, the basic from which all good drivers start the ramblings of the idiots that claim a driver can speed but still be safe is just simple nonsense


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 18:49 
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safetyman wrote:
speed kills, the 1st part of the risk assesment is the speed limit, thats the start, the basic from which all good drivers start the ramblings of the idiots that claim a driver can speed but still be safe is just simple nonsense

So exceeding a speed limit is always, in whatever circumstances, dangerous, is it?

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 19:11 
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safetyman wrote:
speed kills, the 1st part of the risk assesment is the speed limit, thats the start, the basic from which all good drivers start the ramblings of the idiots that claim a driver can speed but still be safe is just simple nonsense


Wow, I think you should say that to the face of the judges that have ruled that speeding does not equal dangerous driving.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 19:15 
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safetyman wrote:
speed kills, the 1st part of the risk assesment is the speed limit, thats the start, the basic from which all good drivers start the ramblings of the idiots that claim a driver can speed but still be safe is just simple nonsense


Stopping in the middle of a motorway and having a lorry run into you at 45 MPH could kill you.
Which party is the more dangerous? Your suppositions so far seem to indicate you could fit either driver type.

View the bigger picture.
I have just returned from France, where I drove on the opposite side of the road, and over took other vehicles at up to 80 mph without incident.
How did I survive? I made my risk assessments continuously, and adapted my driving speed, position etc. to suit the changing conditions and other traffic.
When faced with agricultural vehicles on twisty roads, I did the sensible thing, dropped back and settled in for the long wait, while allowing French drivers to pass me, since they were better able to see around the obstructing vehicle than I could sat on the right.

Why should I not be able to apply the same common sense approach in this country?
As I drove back up the M6 on Monday morning, 3.00 am, it was deserted, but because of speed cameras, I was restricted to 70 mph, when conditions would have made a higher speed safe.
Net result I had to pull up an hour short of my home to rest when I could easily have been an hour ahead at a marginally higher speed. Many drivers are not as cautious, and end up falling asleep... often for good! Hence speed enforcement CAN kill.

Your approach will eventually result in your having an accident, because your belief that slow is safe, will drop you right in it on a patch of unseen ice or dirt!!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 19:15 
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 19:19 
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safetyman wrote:
... the 1st part of the risk assesment is the speed limit, thats the start...


Really? What on earth makes you think that? (serious question!)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 19:53 
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safetyman wrote:
speed kills, the 1st part of the risk assesment is the speed limit, thats the start, the basic from which all good drivers start the ramblings of the idiots that claim a driver can speed but still be safe is just simple nonsense

Why of course. It's so simple. You really can measure road safety in miles per hour.

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Paul Smith: a legend.

"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)


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