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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 15:46 
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Last edited by thomasmutton on Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:17, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 14:30 
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If it happened like you say it did, then a letter of ezplanation should do the trick remember don't lie to them as they will have all the information they need on the picture, time date and speed if over the camera threshold. They will be able to see the volume of traffic just prior to and after the offence and if the camera is one that is set back from the white line by a few yards then an even better view of the junction traffic, etc.
So, good luck and keep us posted as to what happens to you.
Stephen


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 15:59 
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Assuming that you had crossed the white line before the light went red, you ought to be OK once you explain to them what happened. AFAIK the sensor in the ground is often behind the white line, explaining why you triggered the camera. I'm not saying that's definitely what took place, but it sounds likely to me from what you've told us.

Of course, if they had only checked the information properly, they wouldn't have sent you the NIP in the first place. But it suits them not to check it, because that way you have to do the work instead, and who knows, you might just pay up without doing so at all. Thieving scum.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 16:41 
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AFAIK the minimum green time is 7 seconds. (which causes a lot of problems at night, but that's another thing) so if it was only on for 5 seconds I don't believe it's legally a set of traffic lights. But of course you'd have to check that out. Chances are it was on for exactly 7 seconds, but you never know.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 16:56 
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Stephen wrote:
If it happened like you say it did, then a letter of ezplanation should do the trick remember don't lie to them as they will have all the information they need on the picture, time date and speed if over the camera threshold. They will be able to see the volume of traffic just prior to and after the offence and if the camera is one that is set back from the white line by a few yards then an even better view of the junction traffic, etc.
So, good luck and keep us posted as to what happens to you.
Stephen


maybe the case with the new digital cameras, but the old style Gatso red light cameras only record, the time interval after the lights had gone to red and the actual speed the ops vehicle was traveling at, i have heard that they dont trigger at low speeds


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 17:00 
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toonbarmy wrote:
maybe the case with the new digital cameras, but the old style Gatso red light cameras only record, the time interval after the lights had gone to red and the actual speed the ops vehicle was traveling at, i have heard that they dont trigger at low speeds

They should also record the amber time. Even the old gatso red lights cameras are digital devices, it's just that the data is recorded on film. Not that "digital" means "great wow wonderful perfect never goes wrong".

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 17:08 
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Ziltro wrote:
They should also record the amber time.


are you sure, i was always under the impression that the prosecution data only contained the time and speed after the sequence went to red. No doubt the standard traffic light sequence is recorded somewhere


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 08:37 
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Last edited by thomasmutton on Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:17, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: got the evidence
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 08:58 
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thomasmutton wrote:
Hi guys, i got the evidence sent to me through post.

the link is
http://www.tom-mutton.com/images/policephotos.jpg

The light was on GREEN when i passed the line, but i think my back wheels were still not over as you can see from the pictures.

can anyone shed a little light on the law here?


The pictures in the link are lousy and I can't make out the state of the lights.

HOWEVER, the offence is ONLY committed when the 'first part' of your vehicle crosses the stop line AND the lights are red. So from your text, you are in the clear.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 09:01 
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thomasmutton,

Were the photos they gave you really such bad quality? I can hardly distinguish anything in them (apart from your plate details).

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 09:18 
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smeggy wrote:
I can hardly distinguish anything in them (apart from your plate details).


I think I can make out a box junction offence. :(

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 09:21 
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I'm thinking through the logic of red light offence photo pairs...

Does the panel agree that no offence can be shown UNLESS one photo shows the car BEFORE the stop line and another shows it AFTER the stop line during the same red period?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 13:36 
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I'm afraid the photos were of that quality. I must admit the quality is very poor and I could not distinguish the colour of the lights.

Can i assume i will receive a £60 fine for the box offence?

As you can see from the photo, my back wheels are not fully over the line so I guess that's the reason i got a ticket.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 14:21 
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thomasmutton wrote:
Can i assume i will receive a £60 fine for the box offence?


Not at all. They are very sloppy and they probably aren't looking at box junction offences.

thomasmutton wrote:
As you can see from the photo, my back wheels are not fully over the line so I guess that's the reason i got a ticket.


Nope. See above. I CANNOT see evidence of a red light offence in the photos.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 15:21 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
Nope. See above. I CANNOT see evidence of a red light offence in the photos.

I tend to agree. The purpose of taking rear photos is to provide proof that the driver indeed jumped a red. The photos provided (if they really are that bad) makes this doubtful, for both sets of lights.

Be warned that your details are available for all to see. You may wish to quickly edit the photos in case a snooper warns the appropriate camera partnership of your inevitable strategy.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 16:06 
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I thought the offence occurred when any part of the vehicle crossed the line?

I don't see where it shows that the amber lights were on for 3 seconds, I thought that was part of the data? Or were they on for 2.9 seconds? I'm not quite sure how to read the data.

A box junction offence occurs when you enter AND stop. There is no proof of stopping. Also there's a gap to the right you could have driven into.

It seems to say the red light was on for 1.3 (I think, can't be sure on the 3) seconds. It might be worth videoing the junction and checking timings.

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