Safe Speed Forums

Two weeks ago, driving in London I stopped in a queue for some traffic lights. Stupidly I left the car in third gear, and so stalled it when attempting to move off. Naturally being in London I was bibbed at and two cars pushed in front of me. Once I restarted the engine I pulled off rather quickly to get back into the queue, however I soon found myself in a box junction and the exit the other side of the lights was blocked. I casually stopped at the very end of the box. I looked around but couldn't see any cameras and thought I was safe, however it turns out that there was a camera on a side road which got me at an angle. Hence my mum, the registered keeper has a £60 penalty charge. Obviously I paid her, however it means that I have no chance to appeal.

I'm now looking at quitting driving as soon as I get the car back to Ipswich, and I get sacked for being 15 minutes late for my Saturday morning shift in Farringdon, too bad, I'm finishing in a month anyway.

"Pushed in front"? or made use of the available road space?



I would contend that you didn't "find yourself in a box junction" but rather entered the junction without ascertaining that your exit was clear.

The £60 'tax' is a pain (although it wasn't actually for stalling really was it) and I commiserate, but, with respect, there's two cases of inattention (wrong gear and being in the box junction) as well as a possesive attitude to your 'place in the queue'. I sense a less than optimal attitude for London driving in your post to be honest.

Mike.

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www.misspelled-signs.com - A tribute to illiterate signwriters.

Perhaps .. but then had they not got in the wrong lane themselves in the first place if they changed lanes as he stalled? :scratcchin:




Flustered and in an unfamiliar car in an unfamiliar surrounding. London takes some getting used to. I do not like London as a place. But then I am a bit of a country yokel at heart.




As said .. unfamiliar car. Our own cars have that certain "feel" which becomes "intimate to us". I think more a case of getting flustered at stalling and making such an error with the gears which would not have occurred in his own "familiar to HIM" car .. along with the horn honking and rude gestures perhaps. All this would have added to his general and now "stressed" desire to get moving and helping the cars stacking up behind get moving again

I would think that the cars which nipped in front had been in the incorrect lane themselves.. else why would they change lanes when they reached the lights? Could it be they joined the right hand turn lane only or deliberately went up the lane with a view to cut in at the lights in any case? We are not talking "zip merging" in this instance .. but the sort who create the jams down the ahead only lanes in urban zones.

Whenever I am in London .. I sense an impatience and see standards of driving which make me wince.


Nicycle... chalk it to experience. Next time you (or anyone else) use your mum's car or hire car .. sit in it and try to get a familiaised "feel". Get to know where all the switches are too.

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

I was not aware of that I was about to enter a box junction until I was in it.


Yes to be honest, I guess the Swiss cheese model is needed in this case.


I do rarely try to start in the wrong gear and more often in no gear, and admit that I may be a clumsy in this respect. I don't see why a few seconds delay should mean losing ones place in the queue, nor do I see why this indicates a possessive attitude. Do you push in front of people at shops who drop money on the floor when they're about top pay and have to bend down to collect it?


Yes they were behind me, and I had created a gap for them to get round me by the initial movement of the car before it stalled.


I'll be honest and say that this is the main car I drive, not owning my own car and generally I'm fine with it (though generally I'm in a relaxed state). I had previously used the junction about 3 times in this direction, the first time going the wrong way! I don't think I'll ever get used to a place with such uncivilised drivers.


Thank you for being understanding of the circumstances. At the time I just wanted to get get onto the A12 where I'd have free flowing junctions and no congestion till within a few miles from home. I didn't recover from the state until I was on the M11! Perhaps I do have a bit of problem with driving which by cycling I could just dismount, worst case scenario being bibbed when the chain came off while I coasted slowly to the pavement.

The main factor was the fact that I would either have to sit and wait for the lights to turn red again and the face honking of every driver or accelerate quickly in the gaps. I chose to start quickly and keep it in gear 1. When I saw myself in the box junction I slowly crawled to the end of the box. I know now should have turned right despite not having made the observations and being in the wrong lane and caused disruption to (infinitely more) drivers than I caused by being at the very end of the box (none).


I'm glad I'm not the only one!

Anyway I will not be driving in London again for at least four years. With a 30 minute cycle ride, a train journey and then cycling from Liverpool Street to Farringdon, I can get to my shift only 15 minutes late. Luckily I'm quitting anyway at the end of the month, so I'm not to bothered if I upset anyone for being late. I was hoping to quit driving this week but have been convinced not to by my mum, as she doesn't want me to cycle to work (Braintree to Witham) due to the lack of a safe route. And the money saved on the insurance plus fuel costs is only half the season ticket cost. I shall be starting university in October and luckily will not have to travel at all.

If the markings were so faded you couldn't see them then you have a defence. If they were clear but you didn't see them, the problem is of your own making.

NO, because they will only be a few seconds. When a car fails to make progress as expected you can't tell whether it will move in a few seconds or if it will be there all week. If the car has L plates I would stay behind it to avoid unnecessary stress on a learner, if it doesn't have L plates I would pass if it was safe to do so and if not passing would impede other road users.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

Thanks for the intelligent input. Also interesting is that the box junction does not comply with TSRGD.

You must be a fantastic driver if you've never missed anything around you due to focussing on one thing. I can reverse really slowly, almost as slow as a toddler crawling and still get distracted.

NO, because they will only be a few seconds. When a car fails to make progress as expected you can't tell whether it will move in a few seconds or if it will be there all week. If the car has L plates I would stay behind it to avoid unnecessary stress on a learner, if it doesn't have L plates I would pass if it was safe to do so and if not passing would impede other road users.[/quote]
It's obvious that a person isn't gonna sit there ad infinitum, isn't it? Fair enough if there's nothing in any of the other lanes and you're not aiming to return to the same lane (after all you don't know when the car's going to shoot forward do you?).

I have always said the the true test of driving maturity is the ability to recover from a stall without getting flusterrd!

I guess it is a sort of Zen thing!

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

Guess I pass everywhere but London, Nottingham and Leicester then

Ah.. but you are still a young driver mate.


Hey - don't give up on the driving. You need to keep that skill in tune. It cost time, effort and money to qualify in the first place.

Passing the initial L-test? Nicycle - it's like your GCSE passes through to your AS levels - on to the A2s - then your degree and post-graduate training programmes and professional exams :roll;

A stepping stone .. and an eternal learning curve.

Hell - I am stilllearning.

As for stalling in town - it's not necessarily "driving maturity" as such - but more that confidence acquired over the years of chalking up experience and getting used to each car. Heck - you buy a new car and you stall her more often than the older one until you get used to her feel properly. Why else do you think PC Milton wished to "get the handle of that top of the range Vectra"

So do not give up driving. Drive your Mum's car at each opportunity offered. Keep up the skill - gain the confidence as "practice does make perfect - or a striving towards achieving this elusive ideal"

Best of luck at Uni too. Work hard at propping up the bar and going for curries Your best essays are writen at 4 am in the morning when the deadline for handing in the work is 10 am later on that morning - givin' aways me own attitude at Uni here When my own older kids went off to Uni - I was down a few time per term - making sure they actually studied

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Cheers for encouragement. I'm still driving to Witham everyday, a 15 mile return trip which I can easily handle, although the traffic at either end is frustrating. I'm aiming to drive with a more relaxed attitude, as having watched some you-tube videos by driving instructors it does seem that I even in heavy traffic I should make proper observations and leave the same gap I would in lighter traffic, even if 99% of drivers seem to follow half a second behind each other. If I stall again I'll try and treat it as if I'm setting off from a parked position and ignore any signs of irateness from other drivers. Honestly, I stalled a few times in Ipswich and Colchester when I first started driving my mum's car, and of course as a learner and wasn't subject to the same impatience by other drivers. The experience in Nottingham was a bit worse, and maybe I was being a bit ambitious having only just passed. I even stalled on the M1 once but then no-one minds if you stall in a car-park .

I cycled yesterday, and noticed that sadly I've lost fitness having previously cycled everyday and missed the first train getting into work 45 minutes late . Oh well, won't make that mistake next week. It was so much more pleasant to cycle, especially in London as I felt I had nothing to fear of apart from being knocked down, which granted is unlikely if you can keep up with the traffic . Also the view you get from cycling is so much better, from being higher up and I wish I had the same view when driving.

I will not be driving while at university, as I will be based at the centre of Cambridge and everything will be a nice walk or cycle away. And I won't have to put up with traffic . I guess I may resume the driving next Summer, and possibly in holidays if I can get a good deal on medium-term insurance.

Luckily I'm not doing an essay subject and should be spared from that . And I've been told from a girl who's just spent a year on the same course that they can't surely expect you to do all the work they give you. Still as long as I'm not one of the worst I'll be fine .

Cambridge is certainly a lovely place to study (as Oxford where my own eldest studied.) Some of the younger Swiss are at Cambridge.

I gather the Mad Doc turned down his place in favour of St Andrews .. on the basis of car went with him and he could play golf :lol;

But seriously - keep driving and drive your mum's car at each opportunity. Keep up a hard earned skill and keep it safe as a result.

Cycle - even in Cambridge with a COAST led mind.

Best of luck with studies .. and yes .. they set an impossible amount of work for you. Your challenge is to prioritise this work and complete the work so as to get the right grades .. and stretching your brain's potential all the time ... without compromising beer, curry and late night debate times

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.