Safe Speed Forums

Hi Guys

I'm new to the forums and was wondering whether anybody could give me any sound advice.

I'll start from the beginning.

Passed my test in 2003 and within the first 2 years i acquired 6 penalty points (2 separate speeding offences).
I, like everyone else assumes that i would get an automatic ban. This was not the case. 2 years on i heard nothing from the DVLA and of course i'm still driving.
In the meantime I pick up another 3 points from a speed camera, points added to license, no problem.

Yet, 3 weeks ago i was randomly stopped and issued with a producer. 7 days later I get a court summons.
Attending them court summons I had absolutely no idea what the problem was, it had been that long since my initial points I had clearly forgotten that i had done anything wrong.

Anyway courts wanted to know why I hadn't received an automatic ban, and in my defence all i could say was that I never had my license revoked by the DVLA.

Really don't know where i stand with this one, surely it will get thrown out of court based on a DVLA error.

I am due back in court in 2 weeks, can anybody give any advice??

much appreciated

Hi.

It might be worth asking the chaps at www.PePiPoo.com.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Has anyone else noticed the gaping holes in this story?


OK so, if we take worst case scenario, points were levied in 2005, thus they time out in 2008 (last time I checked we were in 2009, but hey the way our trolls argue it could be 1943. So any points received this year are completely irrelevant to those received in 2005. In a court case the prosecution can raise similar offences, but why would one go to court when the matter could easily be resolved by a FPN and 3 points.

Honestly, if you are going to spoof these forums, at least check out the law before you make a total tit of yourself!!!

When the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency is notified that a new driver has six or more penalty points they will write to him/her to say that the licence has been revoked. The driver then reverts to learner status and is treated like any other learner. He or she has to apply for a new provisional licence, display L-plates and is prohibited from driving on motorways. A learner car driver will need to be accompanied by a driver aged 21 or over who has held a full licence for at least three years. A learner motorcyclist will be restricted to smaller less powerful bikes.
To ignore a revocation and carry on driving without a valid driving licence is an offence with a maximum penalty of £1,000.

During the years you were on probation did you keep your address up to date with the DVLA at all times?

If you knew you should have had an automatic ban why did you carry on driving? This must be 'Driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence' which is another 3 to 6 points.

If you have had a producer and then a court date it suggests there is something else wrong eg they think you're disqualified, you are disqualified, you have no insurance, they stopped you for driving without due care or similar. There is no such thing as being randomly stopped. Your car or something you did made them stop you.

Your solicitor should advise you on the best course of action as they should be an expert in motoring law

Question to others: who is responsible for notifying the DVLA of the points situation? Is it the police, the driver, the courts or someone else?

If you get 6 points within your first two years then you do not get banned,you get reduced back to a provisional licence. Then the DVLA send you a letter informing you of this and ask you to send your licence back for the change to take place,if you do not respond to it within 12 months then your licence is revoked after this period.
Stephen

Odin

constructive comments only please...got enough on my plate without dealing with smart arse comments from you.

thanks for the replies so far guys.

ok maybe the story is a little vague.
2003-2005 i were issued with 2 FPN...assumed automatic revoked license as i was within my 2 years 'probationary period', however the DVLA NEVER wrote to me to confirming this.
2 years on i pick up another FPN, points were added to my license without any mention of a ban.

teabelly
last week i WAS randomly stopped, i was in a company van and being a lifetime member you should be aware that work/van insurance is registered as group insurance and not down to the individual person,hence why they stopped me!!!!!.

my point is that i was not totally aware of the 6 points situation within the first 2 years, some could say i was young and naive about the law.

im not on here for people to have a dig, im looking for a legal loophole to get me out of this mess.

Solicitors have quoted me £700!!! which of course i havent got, so i will be representing myself in court.

thanks again for the replies so far.

Like I said, it wasn't random as insurance wasn't showing up You didn't mention being in a company van so I assumed it was your own car. If you have contents insurance you might have legal cover with that so it is worth checking. Also if you have your own car the insurance for that may have free advice or low cost legal people. Ditto breakdown cover.

Ignorance is no excuse unfortunately but it is your only option. The dvla not issuing a ban may be something to do with whether the FPN goes with the date of the offence or the date of application of it as I am assuming there is a grey area and you may have had it applied at a date which was just outside the 2 year point but the actual date of the offence wasn't. Hence the confusion. Only you know whether that is a likely explanation as if the 2 FPNs were well within the 2 years then it is odd the DVLA haven't applied a ban. Think you can only plead cock up rather than conspiracy. Has the DVLA said why they hadn't applied the automatic ban? You need to find out why. You also need to find out how many times they write to the person and by what methods to find out whether it is possible the automatic ban notification got lost in the post and it wasn't chased up properly.

I find great difficulty with this senario. I would argue that DVLA issue licences and only the courts and DVLA can revoke or suspend a licence. The user cannot self revoke.

This sinario hit the press a few months ago and 50% of those who have reached 6 points within 2 years have not reapplied for a licence. A simple cross reference of those people would reviel thos who continue to tax a vehicle and a reminder letter could be generated.

The reallity is that you need to get a valid licence ASAP, that may mean getting another provisional and passing both tests.

I am angry at DVLA/ the court system for leaving you in this mess and potentially you could be under insured on our roads due to thier failure to follow through with a simple thing like two recorded delivery letters to your last known address.

Write to DVLA and ask of any record of them notifying you of your licence revokation.
A nill return could be usefull in court.
you may need to do it under the data protection act and pay a fee.

edit, email them today, it will be quicker, ask for the reply by e-mail

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

anton thanks for the useful info. very much appreciated.

for your info, i have phoned the DVLA and recorded the conversation. they clearly state that NO form of communication either verbal or written has ever been sent to me regarding a revocation of my license.

surely this is a massive balls up on the DVLA's part??

i know i have been ignorant in the past but if my license is taken away then i have no job, surely the courts will take this into account???

teabelly, firstly my apologies. secondly thanks for the info.

i will ask the DVLA these exact questions you and anton have pointed out, again thanks.

It is important to know what you are charged with on the summons and what the penalties are available. The prosicution would need to prove that your licence had been revolked and a record of that process, coppies of the letters?

It matters what the law says, not what is right. if only dvla can issue a liscence and if only dvla or the court can revoke a liscence you could request a copy of the revokation under section 8 of the criminal procedures and investigations act. This is material relevent to your defence. Of course if it does not exist then it makes prossicution harder


Sorry for the typos, my dyslixia and my diabeties medication are giving me a tough time today

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

anton your a star mate, the legal jargon is what im gonna need in court to prove i done my homework.

cheers

Fantastic news guys,

My case has just been thrown out of court under the best 'interest of the public' LMAO.

just like to say thanks for all the positive feedback.

much appreciation to teabelly and anton.

CHEERS TO ME
LOL

You must now establish if you have a valid licence, if it is full, void or provisional, and if required book and pass those tests.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code