Safe Speed Forums

The campaign for genuine road safety
It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 11:33

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 01:46 
Offline
New User
New User

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 01:02
Posts: 2
I have recently received an NIP for allegedly driving at 47mph in a 40mph zone (as recorded by a speed camera).

My circumstances are this:

I know for certain that I wasn't the driver when the alleged offence took place as I was being driven at the time. However, I am unable to provide the full details of the person who was actually driving because beyond that of a first name I don't know anymore about her.

The reason being, is that on the evening of the alledged offence I had been at a bar where I had met and picked-up a young Polish woman by the name of Halina who I had invited back to my place.

As I had drunk four bottles of lager, I felt that I might be over the limit and elected to get a cab back rather than drive. However, Halina suggested that she drive both of us back to my place as she was not only fully insured to do so, but had been drinking only soft drinks all that evening.

After a one night stand, all I know about this woman is her first name and that she was staying with her sister in Hammersmith while in London looking for work. I haven't had any further contact from her since I dropped her off at Ealing Broadway tube station the following day.

My question is: What am I supposed to put on the form regarding the details of the driver?

I can only provide a first name and a very general location as far as an address is concerned – please advise.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 07:48 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 22:02
Posts: 3266
Legally your obligation is to give all the information that you have to the police so that THEY can identify the driver.
You are on a very sticky wicket. You have never seen her driving licence or her insurance. You should ask for photographs to help you identify the driver and show that you have diligently tried to find her details promptly. Do you have any receipts from the evening? did you use a credit card or even cash machine in the pub. Email any friends you met and create a paper trail of you trying to find her details. If you laid this before the court and remind them that the court must follow the standard of "beyond reasonable doubt" they would have to decide that you were lying through your teeth to find you guilty. (Or be in one of the many courts that dont care?)

If you followed this path and put this senario to the camera partnership they/the cps may not issue a summons

If they do,I have no idea wether a court would buy your account of events. You cannot lie and admit to driving as that would be pereverting the course of justice. If you are trying to dodge your own ticket with a flakey story, dont! yu could go to prison.

_________________
Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:08 
Offline
New User
New User

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 01:02
Posts: 2
Hello Anton,

Thanks for your reply. I really do not have any further infomation about Halina other than what I have already stated and the fact that back in Poland she lived near Gdansk with her parents and a younger brother. I did have some photos of her on my mobile phone but I deleted these about a week ago before the NIP arrived.

Unfortunately, the NIP doesn't allow to present a case. It only wishes to obtain the details of the driver - I am not even given the opportunity to ask for photographs from the speed camera (apparently a Gatso - which I tend to pass on my way home from work).

So it looks like I'm truly stuck up a creek without a paddle.

If I just put the details that I know:

(1) Name: Halina.
(2) Address: Somewhere in Hammersmith, London.

What will happen?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:40 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:19
Posts: 1795
If it was a gatso you can ask for pictures to help identify the driver. Not sure how you didn't notice being flashed by a gatso on the way home with this woman. If someone had driven me home and set off a camera I'd be wanting their surname and address!

Didn't you find it slightly odd that a complete stranger offered to drive your car home to a strange location rather than just getting a cab as you suggested? She won't have been insured unless she had a vehicle of her own and it had a third party driving other cars extension which is completely unlikely for a polish person just staying with their sister in the UK while looking for work. DOC has been taken off a lot of insurance policies and I have to make sure each time I renew that it is specifically mentioned.

Someone else came on here reciting a similar tale a while ago. It makes me wonder whether there is some scam going on with deliberately setting off gatsos or using men as stooges for some other scam like identity theft.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:30 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 23:42
Posts: 3820
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=17635


You ain't this guy are you? :popcorn:

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!


Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:30 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 23:28
Posts: 1940
child_not_on_board wrote:
I have recently received an NIP for allegedly driving at 47mph in a 40mph zone (as recorded by a speed camera).

My circumstances are this:

I know for certain that I wasn't the driver when the alleged offence took place as I was being driven at the time. However, I am unable to provide the full details of the person who was actually driving because beyond that of a first name I don't know anymore about her.

The reason being, is that on the evening of the alledged offence I had been at a bar where I had met and picked-up a young Polish woman by the name of Halina who I had invited back to my place.

As I had drunk four bottles of lager, I felt that I might be over the limit and elected to get a cab back rather than drive. However, Halina suggested that she drive both of us back to my place as she was not only fully insured to do so, but had been drinking only soft drinks all that evening.

After a one night stand, all I know about this woman is her first name and that she was staying with her sister in Hammersmith while in London looking for work. I haven't had any further contact from her since I dropped her off at Ealing Broadway tube station the following day.

My question is: What am I supposed to put on the form regarding the details of the driver?

I can only provide a first name and a very general location as far as an address is concerned – please advise.



We had this story before.

I am not sure if I believe it. :bunker:

How do you know she was insured? :roll: We girlies do not tend to keep the insurance cert in the handbag we dance around on the dance floor :roll:

You never ask her full name? A case of "Wham Bam Thank You Mam!".

As for the credit card advice? It prove you may have been driver as in vicinity.

Email? You only know her name first name of Halina (allegedly) und area of Poland (Gdansk ist a large town,, ) Pah. How do you know she gave you her proper name here.. und how come you let her drive your car without verifying anything about her?

You are either a fake or a fool und I am sorry if this comment sound tetchy und unkind .. but I do not tolerate fools any better than I tolerate speed cam gimmicks.

:bunker:

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien
!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:40 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 23:42
Posts: 3820
teabelly wrote:
If it was a gatso you can ask for pictures to help identify the driver. Not sure how you didn't notice being flashed by a gatso on the way home with this woman. If someone had driven me home and set off a camera I'd be wanting their surname and address!

Didn't you find it slightly odd that a complete stranger offered to drive your car home to a strange location rather than just getting a cab as you suggested? She won't have been insured unless she had a vehicle of her own and it had a third party driving other cars extension which is completely unlikely for a polish person just staying with their sister in the UK while looking for work. DOC has been taken off a lot of insurance policies and I have to make sure each time I renew that it is specifically mentioned.

Someone else came on here reciting a similar tale a while ago. It makes me wonder whether there is some scam going on with deliberately setting off gatsos or using men as stooges for some other scam like identity theft.



My thoughts exactly teabelly. Not sure how a woman can use his identity though.. Cannot quite see logic in in some scam re deliberately setting off Gatsos though :popcorn:
If this chap is genuine - he's not a leg to stand on and will have to pucker up and bend over for his points on this one. :popcorn:

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!


Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:45 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 23:28
Posts: 1940
teabelly wrote:
If it was a gatso you can ask for pictures to help identify the driver. Not sure how you didn't notice being flashed by a gatso on the way home with this woman. If someone had driven me home and set off a camera I'd be wanting their surname and address!



I would want this anyway before I let any one touch young Jag (who the other love of my life .. vying for poll position mit the Mad Doc :lol:)

He will claim he did not see the ping as he drunk und wanted sex too. (Personally i have never been drunk.. apart from that time when I put too much sherry in a traditional English trifle .. und none of us dared drive for hours. IG end up staying the night here :lol:)


Quote:
Didn't you find it slightly odd that a complete stranger offered to drive your car home to a strange location rather than just getting a cab as you suggested? She won't have been insured unless she had a vehicle of her own and it had a third party driving other cars extension which is completely unlikely for a polish person just staying with their sister in the UK while looking for work. DOC has been taken off a lot of insurance policies and I have to make sure each time I renew that it is specifically mentioned.


teabelly .. I have doubt as with the last one . I cannot recall if on here or on PH .. now

To me - it logical to take a cab. You can snog und smooch und cuddle up in the back. :wink: if you know what I mean :wink:

Quote:
Someone else came on here reciting a similar tale a while ago. It makes me wonder whether there is some scam going on with deliberately setting off gatsos or using men as stooges for some other scam like identity theft.


Indeed.. but I did not believe him either. :popcorn:

I do not tolerate fools any better than I do gimmicks. Unfortunately - the trollster I baited was a bit too clever for me.


I see the Geared Up one has similar thought as he butt in here :popcorn:

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien
!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 13:20 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:16
Posts: 7986
Location: Moved to London
anton wrote:
You are on a very sticky wicket. You have never seen her driving licence or her insurance.

I think this is a surprisingly important point. I don't know the law here but without you seeing her documents there could be a possibility that you were 'in charge', so still liable.

CNOB (appropriate?) wrote:
I did have some photos of her on my mobile phone but I deleted these

If you can connect your phone to a PC then you might be able to undelete them. I recommend you use photorec from http://www.cgsecurity.org. This is something a decent prosecutor would ask you.

_________________
Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 13:34 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:19
Posts: 1795
In Gear wrote:
[ Not sure how a woman can use his identity though.. Cannot quite see logic in in some scam re deliberately setting off Gatsos though :popcorn:
If this chap is genuine - he's not a leg to stand on and will have to pucker up and bend over for his points on this one. :popcorn:


She'd sell his identity on or use it for internet purchases. Lots of places let you deliver to another address and as long as she gets the cvv number off the back she'll have free reign. Getting into someone's home gives access to bank statements, credit card statements, passports etc. With the gatso thing there is an opportunity for blackmail. He'll say it was her driving. She could deny it and say he drove home tiddly, set off the gatso knowing full well the pics will probably be too ropey to prove who was actually driving but for a consideration she'll corroborate his story and take the points on her licence. Setting it off may have just been accidental but it is possible to make cash out of any situation. I have the mind of an evil genius :twisted:


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 14:21 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 23:42
Posts: 3820
Steve wrote:
anton wrote:
You are on a very sticky wicket. You have never seen her driving licence or her insurance.

I think this is a surprisingly important point. I don't know the law here but without you seeing her documents there could be a possibility that you were 'in charge', so still liable.



I think I covered this back in 2005 when I did a "quicky quiz" on insurance and the law. Permitting the use of a vehicle by another without insurance is an offence under s143 of the RTA 1988. Onus is on the owner to check the legality of anyone they allow to use their car. Had we pulled this guy in person and found the woman not insured nor qualified to dirve - she would be charged accordingly He would be charged for contravening S143. :popcorn: The offence is one of "absolite liablity" :popcorn:

If you lend a car on the express condition that the other party insures it first - then the lender cannott be guiltu of permitting the use of the vehicle - Case of Newbiry v Davis 1974 . forget which paragraph .. refers. :wink:


Quote:
CNOB (appropriate?) wrote:
I did have some photos of her on my mobile phone but I deleted these

If you can connect your phone to a PC then you might be able to undelete them. I recommend you use photorec from http://www.cgsecurity.org. This is something a decent prosecutor would ask you.


Agree. Assuming the OP to be genuine. The :neko: needs a saucer of milk of magnesia at times :lol:

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!


Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 14:37 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 23:42
Posts: 3820
teabelly wrote:
In Gear wrote:
[ Not sure how a woman can use his identity though.. Cannot quite see logic in in some scam re deliberately setting off Gatsos though :popcorn:
If this chap is genuine - he's not a leg to stand on and will have to pucker up and bend over for his points on this one. :popcorn:


She'd sell his identity on or use it for internet purchases. Lots of places let you deliver to another address and as long as she gets the cvv number off the back she'll have free reign. Getting into someone's home gives access to bank statements, credit card statements, passports etc.



Ah .. I was looking at it from the point of view of deliberately pinging the cam... as I could not see how that fits in. But .. yes .. these days you have to lock all documents away ina vry strong bomb proof safe :roll:


Ah. blackmail . but that's only if he can trace her and she knows she "did the ping". She could blackmail over allowing her to drive uninsured .. as I doubt she had any insurance.

Quote:
With the gatso thing there is an opportunity for blackmail. He'll say it was her driving. She could deny it and say he drove home tiddly, set off the gatso knowing full well the pics will probably be too ropey to prove who was actually driving but for a consideration she'll corroborate his story and take the points on her licence. Setting it off may have just been accidental but it is possible to make cash out of any situation. I have the mind of an evil genius :twisted:



Ah.. but he does not have a clue who she is - other than she's called Halina - which may be true or not true He has no idea if she's called "Halina or Olga.. or Agnieszka .. . Perhaps he can go back to the club where he pulled her - ask the barman if he recalls her? Find out if the staff there have any idea if she's a "regular" there ??? - :popcorn:

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!


Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 20:41 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 22:02
Posts: 3266
Going back to my youth, I had a freind called Mick who rode and insured a nice bike. He asked to borrow my escort worth nothing for an afternoon. He was an honest person. I leant it to him. It came back. I never saw his licence , insurance. I knew which building he lived in, but not the front door. A few years ago he died, I went to his funeral. I still dont know his surname.

I cannot be too harsh on the OP , Been there , done it!
I wouldn't do it today.

_________________
Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 20:47 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 23:09
Posts: 6735
Location: Stockport, Cheshire
In Gear wrote:
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=17635

You ain't this guy are you? :popcorn:

As I said at the time, the whole thing sounds highly dubious :roll:

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 21:14 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 23:42
Posts: 3820
anton wrote:
Going back to my youth, I had a freind called Mick who rode and insured a nice bike. He asked to borrow my escort worth nothing for an afternoon. He was an honest person. I leant it to him. It came back. I never saw his licence , insurance. I knew which building he lived in, but not the front door. A few years ago he died, I went to his funeral. I still dont know his surname.

I cannot be too harsh on the OP , Been there , done it!
I wouldn't do it today.


I think we all did something daft as kids. Hell . the Wildcat has admitted some of her more stupid moments in public here :lol: I recall that incident of skiing when tipsy . Young fools ,, reckless .. rebels . ,, but that pair , despite the red misted challenge? They understood the risks all the same and did the run with torches :roll:

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!


Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 21:17 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 23:42
Posts: 3820
PeterE wrote:
In Gear wrote:
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=17635

You ain't this guy are you? :popcorn:

As I said at the time, the whole thing sounds highly dubious :roll:


Yes . I know. I am trying to be nice here. :wink:

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!


Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 23:38 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 00:15
Posts: 5232
Location: Windermere
I have a what if here then.

My father-in-law is currently in hospital - ten weeks so far, and my mother-in-law who lives in the country some distance from the hospital has no transport.

FiL's car is in the garage - unused - and MiL knows that he has in the past added various members of the family to the insurance, as he was unable to drive long distances, and several of us had stood in to drive him.

This coming week my mother-in-law needs somebody to drive her to the hospital, but we cannot find a list of who is on the policy. Can we assume that because we have driven him in the past that we are still insured?

I know my own insurance covers me to drive FiL's car 3rd party only - but other family members who drove company cars are uncertain - the company arranges their insurance. Sister in Law has taken a sabbatical and is not sure whether her company maintained her insurance or not - she has not been driving for 3 months, so dare'nt take her own car.
How would we find out WHO is covered, and could we add somebody without the policy holders presence?

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 23:49 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:19
Posts: 1795
You'd need to contact the insurance company. Lists of named drivers will be on the insurance schedule not on the policy certificate. DOC is on some insurance policies so if it is on yours and the insurance is otherwise in place on that car (check on Askmid to verify) then you would be covered to drive but third party only. Your MIL may clang into data protection. It just depends. As a spouse I'd expect them to be sensible and let her make changes like add drivers rather than take them off.

The other alternative is norwich union short term insurance cover. They offer daily and weekly rates. Think they were quoting from as little as £10 a day so they are worth checking out as it will bypass all the complications.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 20:50 
Offline
User

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 18:50
Posts: 673
Quote:
The other alternative is norwich union short term insurance cover. They offer daily and weekly rates. Think they were quoting from as little as £10 a day so they are worth checking out as it will bypass all the complications.

Actually most insurers will quote for short term cover - I have done it many times, saves any doubt and full peace of mind.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 20:49 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 23:42
Posts: 3820
Ernest Marsh wrote:
I have a what if here then.

My father-in-law is currently in hospital - ten weeks so far, and my mother-in-law who lives in the country some distance from the hospital has no transport.

FiL's car is in the garage - unused - and MiL knows that he has in the past added various members of the family to the insurance, as he was unable to drive long distances, and several of us had stood in to drive him.

This coming week my mother-in-law needs somebody to drive her to the hospital, but we cannot find a list of who is on the policy. Can we assume that because we have driven him in the past that we are still insured?

I know my own insurance covers me to drive FiL's car 3rd party only - but other family members who drove company cars are uncertain - the company arranges their insurance. Sister in Law has taken a sabbatical and is not sure whether her company maintained her insurance or not - she has not been driving for 3 months, so dare'nt take her own car.
How would we find out WHO is covered, and could we add somebody without the policy holders presence?


Ern. find out which broker/insurance company from the paper trail Phone the insurance companies you know folk are insured with. Ask them. Phone them . or contact broker if you insure via broker.

Ask the insurer or broker re you last question here. We plod rely on the MID :popcorn: .. and this area uses brains/common sense as rule of thumb :wink: I cannot couchsafe for other areas though :popcorn: Get copy of the policy. If any driver . no prob. Read the small print in all other policies to check if OK to drive. Remember . the small print is something else we plodding planks ma rely on :popcorn:

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!


Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.029s | 13 Queries | GZIP : Off ]