Safe Speed Forums

I am on 9 points at the mo and just been served ( today) a "notice of intention to prosecute". I intened to go to court no matter what. My last conviction was for doing 110mph on the motorway and I got 6 points but no ban as there were circumstances as to why I was doing 110MPH and also personal circumstances as to why I didnt get banned.

Right back to the alledged speeding offence. I was on Lever Park Avenue, Horwich, Bolton at the time of the alledged offence at 12.57pm on the 13/07/2009. They say I was doing 38MPH in a 30 limit. The van painted orange/yellow and black had blacked out windows the rear doors were not open so I assume the camera was looking through the rear blacked out windows. Nobody could be seen in the van inc the front which were the only windows not to be blacked out. I returned an hour later to take pic's of it but it had gone.

One of the things that concern me is that this van was parked on the opposite side of the road facing oncoming traffic. Surely this in itself is a traffic violation and against the highway code? I thought it was an offence to park on the road facing oncoming traffic. Also as the camera would have been pointing at an angle to my car so how can they get an accurate reading of my speed? Sorry if I am repeating questions already answered before on here. Thank you.

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Flash.
(Everybody is entitled to my opinion)

You won't have any choice in the matter. On 9 and facing a few more they will summon you.

Did you make an exceptional hardship case to avoid a ban? If you did, then you can't use the same reasons this time. To avoid a ban on exceptional hardship grounds you would need to find a new reason(s).

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

I have an 84 year old mother who I visit weekly and help her with her weekly shopping etc. She's got medical problems and can't carry heavy bags. There is nobody else to do her shopping for her local.

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Flash.
(Everybody is entitled to my opinion)

You will be required to anyway when facing a ban


I don't believe this is a violation. Even if it was, it wouldn't invalidate the evidence of your case.


Any such error will be in your favour (the speed reading will be less than your true speed – assuming use of lidar as opposed to radar)

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

I glanced at my speedo and no way was I doing anymore than the stated speed so doubt it was in my favour speed reading wise in fact i'm far from sure I was travelling at 38MPH never mind above it. So it rather appears there is little I can do or say in my defence about it from the responses received so far apart from appeal to the court for leniency and put my case.

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Flash.
(Everybody is entitled to my opinion)

Well the pic ( singular) arrived this morning showing my car but you can't see who's driving from it although my guess they could enhance it. One thing it shows almost for certain is that the camera was mounted in the van and on the opposite side of the road as I first reported. I also believe it was behind the rear blacked out glass in a door not poking through a hole or something. There is a grey tinge to the pic and the colours are muted I believe due to the camera being pointed through the darkened glass. The pic is accompanied by a strongly worded letter informing me of my legal obligations to supply information as requested on the NIP. I was informed that they are not allowed to have the camera lens behind glass but I don't know how true that is can somebody advise?

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Flash.
(Everybody is entitled to my opinion)

This issue is a little convoluted.
The various manuals for lidar speed meters state "In accordance with current ACPO Code of Practice the equipment should not be used through glass. "
Indeed the ACPO guidelines reflect this: "The beam must not be projected through glass or mirrors. "
Type approval demands compliance with a relevant specification or code of practice, I can't remember if the ACPO guidelines or the lidar manuals are the documents used to satisfy this.
What I do know is that fighting the case based on it will get you nowhere. I know of smart people who have tried and failed (and paid the price for questioning it).

Is it possible for you to post a scan of your photo (with your particulars edited out)? We may be able to spot some sort of error and perhaps comment on the potential of the laser being projected through glass.

_________________
Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Make sure this is mentioned in your defence. You will have to prove this to the court.

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Check out Drivesafe's criteria for SAC. They are known to offer to high margin to be fair to them.


Use the extenuating circumstance to try to get admission to the SAC course. You may still qualify - even on 9 points.

Can you provide a scan? You can use the pm system to those on here you feel able to trust with the confidentiailty - if you do not wish it to appear in public.

Also - run all this through the pepipoo site as their legal boffins know just a little bit more about how to fight these things.

Google "pepipoo" - you get there

I play fair. You are entitled to defend and fight for your mobiilty privileges - especially if you have an immoblle dependent as you claim.

Bear in mind you will have to drive like an angel if granted leniency by the court. I will ask you to seek out my COAST post which folk on here have very kindly taken to heart. I try to help you by suggesting you read my COAST advice. No one person is above learning/heeding this simple COAST message

I wish you well. I am a bit rusty over Lever Park Avenue. I think this is the road with some residential housing which leads to the Rivington/Blackrod comp school and the Rivington NSL rurals? I think - NOTE THE WORDING to be more than generosuly fair minded to you here - a deceptively wide road off distant memory of serving with GMP in the past. ALL THE SAME .. I will say to you based on this hazy recollection that you were at 38 mph on a clear residential as I recall all the same. My COAST may have saved you on that basis

I tend to stick to 15- 30 mph on residentials dependent on situation. My choice as a responsible adult.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

IF I ever get to court you mean. I didnt have to prove it in court last time but I will get a letter from my mothers doctor should I have to go to court. It will be easy proving the facts me thinks. However I MAY still get an offer of a SAC IF I plead gulity on the NIP or whatever. Has you can see there are still a few ifs and buts yet to be sorted out before any court appearance. No there is nobody to do it for her.

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Flash.
(Everybody is entitled to my opinion)

Hi Flash. If this does end up in the court - GET that letter to produce in your defence. You are entitled to do so, Your right. My job means I have to apply the rules/the law .. but all have rights to defence all the same. That's justice and only right. I do not ever subscribe to "law is law" and "what I say goes" - as all have a fair and equal right to defending themselves.

IF you accept the 38 mph rap and get offered the DriveSafe SAC - TAKE IT as it's COAST based. Check with DriveSafe - but you should be offered this - even if on 9 points if pinged at tolerated levels.

If they refuse and insist on court .. make sure you plead your afore-mentoned hardship.. take proper legal advice and get solicitor to battle for a SAC as you would seem to need one anyway

I can only suggest such to help you here as a human being to another human being. . Do read my COAST post in archives. It will help you.. .. or so I hope.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

I strongly advise you to respond. Failure to respond gets you 6 points, even if found not guilty of the offence that triggered the NIP.

Guidelines not law.

_________________
I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

I know what you mean but just to be clear about it, this is not a defence to the charge. It could be put forward as part of an exceptional hardship claim to avoid a driving ban.

_________________
I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

No Tesco or Sainsburys home delivery? No Age Concern volunteer shoppers?

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

In gear, thank you for your advice I will certainly check out your COAST. Somehow I managed to miss your post at the time you posted it and have only just seen it. Most helpful thank you very much. Fishman thank you as well your expert advice most welcome and very much appreciated. Thanks to all who have offered their advice and experiences to me.

Regarding Tesco etc home delivery service. To be honest I'm not sure how this works ( my mother certainly won't do) and for sure my mother cannot use a PC nor does she have access to one. My mother would also find it very difficult if not impossible to order her shopping via the telephone. Apart from essential shopping my mother relies on me to take her to garden centers ( her garden is her pride and joy) to purchase things like large and heavy bags of compost and trays of flowers etc. I know of no garden centre that offers a home delivery service .

My mother also relies on me to take her to see my brother who is incapacitated and can't leave his home. He lives approx 20 miles from her and it would be extremely difficult for her to visit him if not impossible without my help by taking and bringing her back in my car. I live 40 mins from my mother and a round trip takes in most of the day for me. Finally all have given me food for thought and been very helpful. I will return my NIP after the weekend well within the allotted time scale, I will of course keep you updated, I am glad I didn't rush into anything and sort advice on here before proceeding with the matter.

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Flash.
(Everybody is entitled to my opinion)

Hey -I know that .. but I think Flash should be aware of this and seek legal advice to make the point properly to the court if he gets summoned. I may be part of the team which has to enforce a law - but that does not mean I will ignore all basic rights and remedies within the legal system as folk have the right of defence/defending their reputation/their quarter. IF i were to do so - I would be accused of supporting a police state... and I belong to a fair but firm generation when all is said and done.. and a free person to express a reasonable opinion. I cannot do the holier than thou posts.. nor the "law is law" stance as this is unheplful to most out there.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Flash and THANK YOU! I really do hope things pan out OK for you. Be sure to mention all mitigating circumstances. Check your licence to see when points expire as well. If you are unlucky and points are still valid - seek out further training and highlight the fact you are keen to learn from mistakes. It may help mitigation.. who knows for sure? But you have to explore each avenue available to you in your situation .. and make sure you LEARN from the hard lessons this time



Make sure the court is aware of this. I know what you are talking about. My mother in law.. .. dammit! My wife will not listen to my words of wisdom as regards "care in a residential home" and I understand her .. as the old "bat" is actually a rather sweet and lovely old lady in full reality - like my wife - I do not mind looking after her to be truthful.. Likewise Ted's sister .. Jazz . who looks after a geriatric paraplegic maiden aunt of theirs..and I salute such carers like Jazz! AND MAYBE YOU from your post here..)




Flash .. make sure you get a decent solicitor who can word your mitigating circumstance properly. As regards your driving.. .. seek out a session with an ADI/ You only need an hour or so to correct any bad habits. If you get offered a DIS or SAC - TAkE it! AND LEARN AND BREATHE IN the advice into your driving style!

I wish you well. I hope you will seek help and hope you will read all of the collective gems of good driving practice as advocated by the late Paul Smith ..his bereaved and talented Claire .. and all who contribute their words of wisdom ..let's see samandbemn/Steve/toltec/Ernest Marsh/Mad Cats/toltec/botach/malcolm w /|peterE and all the other regulars here.

Whatever happens.. keep us informed and join in all the debates with your opinions. But please learn the COAST message if you keep mobile this time. You owe this to your mother and yourself. If you COAST porperly - you should never fall foul of the law It;s why I yadder on ad nauseam about it. I am trying to help folk. HONESTLY.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

I don't disagree with the advice, only the use if the word "defence". I have seen far too many people pick up on words like that, especially when posted by somebody who works in the justice system, and rely on it to obtain a not guilty verdict only to find it doesn't work. In relying on such things they often plead not guilty, even when they know they are guilty, and therefore lose out on the discount for guilty plea.


If by "holier than thou posts" you mean telling people what the law is I plead guilty. My personal view is that accurate information is more helpful than wishful thinking when it comes to planning an approach to a court case.


EDIT following a PM from a regular poster - not In Gear - I have reason to believe that the holier than thou comment may not have been personally aimed at me. If that is the case I apologise. EDIT

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

I meant it as "put forth by the solicitor working on his behalf as the defendant in the dock". His solicitor can word the mitigation corrrectly as we know to be the case in the BSM boss "debacle." In this case - he has a dependent and probably cannot afford nor be provided with a chauffeur (or so I get to "feel" from Flash's posts so far)




Hey - it was not aimed at you, I do apologise if I gave you that impression .. SORRY - honestly. I was meaning that I do not always post up the letter of the law and accept folk out there make mistakes. In the case of the BSM boss on the other thread we've been chatting away in , however, there is a difference in that the public would expect him to know better, be able to name the driver or show he had taken all reasonable steps to identify the driver. He chose not to and his "harship plea" in that instance rings hollow when compared with the lot of others. But Flash is enttiled to the same justice as the BSM boss when all is said and done.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Thank you in Gear and Fisherman. I have only just seen your posts ( for some reason I am not getting emails informing me of updates and yes I do have it set here to do so) all invaluable information and you are both a credit to the way you have advised me. I will be returning my NIP within the next few days and I will wait and see if I am offered a SAC I do hope so as I will most certainly accept it. I will of course keep you informed as soon as I hear back from the police with to what is to be offered to me (or not ) and if not my fate. Thank you once again for the help. advice and guidance offered me.

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Flash.
(Everybody is entitled to my opinion)