Safe Speed Forums

Hi,
I’m scheduled to be in court pm this Wednesday for (apparently) speeding in an 30mph zone which will mean that my points tot up to 12. Having been advised that the best way an ‘exceptional hardship’ case can be presented would be through a specialist solicitor, and having recently got my hands on some of my accumulated pension, I engaged one in March soon after I’d received the NIP.

My problem is that my solicitor seems to have been so inefficient in the exchanges to date that I’m wondering whether – even at this late stage I may be better off dismissing him and trying to handle things myself. Examples of what I have been surprised and concerned about are:-

• A decision to apply for the case to be adjourned being taken without consultation with me
• Promises of calls being made to discuss something – or to obtain any dates unsuitable for court were not made – which resulted in dates being submitted which were only unsuitable for the solicitor with mine not having been considered
• Claim that an email had been sent that hadn’t
• Being left not knowing whether or not the case was being postponed, whether I was to turn up this week or not and whether I should have completed and submitted any forms and having to specifically ask this morning
etc, etc

I suppose my anxiety over the whole issue could be causing me to put too heavy an emphasis on things but I’m really concerned in case the postponement, supposedly at my request, may prejudice the court when the case is eventually heard.

I wonder whether anyone has had any similar experiences and therefore any possible advice. I should perhaps mention that I’m confident that I’d be OK in court trying to put points across and feel that I may even be able to do a better job – being much more familiar with salient points etc. I’d simply given in to consensus opinion at the time of engaging the solicitor.
Many thanks
Jim

Hi Jim.

Have you also asked the good folks at PePiPoo? they're well suited for helping with the legal issues.

It might help to read their FAQ before wading in.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

If you are pleading guilty to the actual offence and only want to put forward exceptional hardship then most people can do this for themselves.You need to be aware that standing up in court with everybody looking at you is not as easy as it sounds and you need to be sure you can do yourself justice. You might find it helpful to consider these points.

An exceptional hardship claim will be more likely to succeed if the hardship affects others rather than you although I recently approved one that only affected the defendant as she lived on her own in a fairly remote village with no bus service and no village shop. i took the view that walking 12 miles to get a pint of milk amounted to exceptional hardship.

Bear in mind that you may well have to give evidence on oath. The penalty for telling lies under oath is JAIL.

If nervous you can write down your reasons and hand the letter to the bench. They will read it and ask questions to be sure they fully understand.

Be sure to consider alternatives. If being without a car would amount to exceptional hardship why can't you cycle/take a bus/get a lift/get it delivered/send granny to hospital by taxi etc etc.

If your case is being heard on an ordinary business day, any magistrates court will have lawyers there representing other defendants. They won't call themselves specialists but will have regular and recent experience of making exceptional hardship claims, will be on the spot and won't charge travel time and will be cheaper than a specialist. If your case is being heard on a motoring cases only day be aware that so many defendants in motoring cases represent themselves that you might be unlucky and find no lawyer is present.


In the end only you can decide how confident you are and if you FULLY understand the concept of exceptional hardship.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

Hi Steve.
Thanks for the response and advice. As it is I’d been guided by a good friend who has been through similar trauma recently and so have posted my (LONG) note on both sites.
Really appreciate you having taken the trouble both to read the note and to respond.
Best
Jim

Dear fisherman

I am totally inexperienced and un-familiar with anything court related but I feel that the information/guidance contained within your note could well be sufficient to bolster me towards attempting to deal with this matter myself and take my chances – especially so as I believe my ‘exceptional hardship’ considerations match all of your criteria.

I’ve had to give many presentations in my work capacity and had already been thinking that I might be better attempting to ‘explain’ the main issues myself on the day as opposed to something possibly seeming ‘artificial’, ‘diluted’ or possibly missing some important points through a third party.

Thank you very much indeed for taking the time and trouble to clarify and reason things out for me.

I’ll post the outcome when eventually known!

Very best regards
Jim

It would be helpfull to you to go a few days earlier and sit through some other cases. If you rang up and asked when motoring cases were on. (they might only be 2-3 days a week) It won't stop you being nervous. but you will at least know whats comming next. If you sat through a typical hour 10-11am you might see a precession of cases ranging from those caught at mid to high speed and people who have totted up to 12 points. If you are interested in humanity there are some interesting and sad cases. I have seen a lot of cases where I have cringed at thier nieve approach. I also wonder at the huge wages of the solicitors a (and the district judges) How can some one on £100k can judge the decisions that a family on £15k would have to make. One solicitor comented that his client couldnt even get legal aid and he was a mere plasterer. I was thinking about our cleaner who does our offices at 7am, then does ordance survey during the day and serves in the cafe at the train station at night and earns less per week than they charge per hour.

To be honest most people on this board would gain from this experiance.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

A few more items to consider.

If the JP sitting in the middle is a man address your remarks to him and call him Sir.

If the JP sitting in the middle is a woman address your remarks to her and call her Madam or Maam.

make short notes for yourself and tick them off as you go to be sure you don't forget anything.

The reasons you give will be carefully noted and you can't use the same reasons again within 3 years no matter how good they are.

If exceptional hardship is granted you will keep your licence but it will have 12 points on it. Any more points (before the current ones expire) will see you back in court as a totter and you will need to find a whole new set of reasons to keep your licence.

If you submit any letters in support of your exceptional hardship take the original and 2 copies so that the bench can all read at the same time.

Finally - a totting ban (for 12 points or more) means you would get a clean licence back at the end of the ban. Worth thinking about.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

A lawyer who regularly appears in magistrates courts will know what questions to ask you and will have no trouble putting the information across to the bench. Some of the specialists are very good. Some are definitely inferior to the lawyers who earn their living by appearing in magistrates courts 5 days a week. A heartfelt plea from the person in the dock can sometimes add something that might not come across otherwise.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

Hi Anton,
Thanks very much for the advice regarding prior attendance in court for ‘acclimatisation’ etc.
After a wretched morning of intense preparation for a ‘solo’ shot tomorrow and having encountered more questions than answers really – mainly given the lack of time, I’ve reluctantly relented and decided to proceed with the already appointed and paid for ‘specialist’ solicitor. I’ll probably have some more time now and so will anyway take up your suggestion to attend a court when some motoring offences are being adjudicated for for ‘acclimatisation’ purposes at the very least – although I expect to also be moved through the plight of adequately prepared ordinary folk suddenly coming face to face with ‘officialdom’.
Thanks very much again!
Jim
PS Was very impressed with the obvious endeavour and commitment that had gone into the work involved in the links detailed in your footer. If it was yourself (Tony?) then thanks yet again and my compliments on very impressive pieces of work!

Dear ‘fisherman’.
Thanks again for the submission of invaluable expert opinion – which I feel has been more than I could possibly have hoped for when I first approached the forum with my specific problem.
I’ve just responded to ‘Anton’ saying that (largely) the pressures of trying to adequately and completely prepare myself within a day have made me revert (“chicken out”) and relent to continuing to allow the ‘specialist’ solicitor I had appointed a few months ago to continue on my behalf.
I appreciate your guidance too re ‘specialists’ vs regular ‘5 days/week Lawyers’. I can only hope that mine falls within the category of ‘very good’.
Your mention of possibly accepting the mandatory 12 month totting ban to obtain a clean licence was also - again, a very good point which – in different circumstances would be very highly persuasive to me.
‘Big sigh’ here as – although I am genuinely touched and appreciative of your sage advice and opinion donated completely for free – I can’t help thinking that (as Anton more or less stated) something is surely wrong when ordinary people (such as myself) are regularly and periodically penalised for marginally exceeding supposed (and sometimes almost arbitrary) limits? In my case I’ve driven approaching 1M miles over 35 years, without ever having had a single accident – and have been ‘caught speeding’ on average just once every 3 ½ years - yet I’m made to feel now as though I’m an ‘enemy of society’ and possibly even ‘dangerous to know’! (‘statement of means forms’, warnings about ‘lying under oath’ etc)
Overall, on being forced to consider it seriously recently – in all of its aspects, it all seems just all luck and circumstance – aside of course from the probable main intent one of it being a guaranteed and essential easy source of revenue for the so-called ‘government’!
Sorry for the rant!
Thanks very much again for your highly valuable input.
Very best regards
Jim

A totting ban for somebody with no previous history of bans is 6 months maximum.

I am sorry the prospect of court is so scary. Thats not a criticism of you, but a fault of the courts that so little accurate information is available and that so much of the rubbish put forward on the internet as fact goes unchallenged by the courts.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.