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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 09:41 
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Hi,

I received a speeding ticket, I believe from a mobile speed van, than stated I was doing 68mph on a 60.

I've opted to do the speed awareness course and they've accepted which means I avoid the points. Great.

However, a few people have mentioned to me that I was 'unlucky' as apparently you are allowed 10%+2. If so surely this covers me?

Others have also said it depends what police area it is in, as they have different regulations?

I'm concerned that if this is correct and I do argue it, they may just shout mew down, take the option of the speed awareness course away and give me the points.

Is anyone able to suggest the correct law here, and explain if I have a leg to stand on if I argue my case, and where I argue it?

Thankyou
Annie


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:26 
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Annie87 wrote:
However, a few people have mentioned to me that I was 'unlucky' as apparently you are allowed 10%+2. If so surely this covers me?

That’s not correct!
The minimum trigger threshold for prosecution is inclusive of the 10%+2 (for automated speed cameras anyway).
See this.

Annie87 wrote:
I'm concerned that if this is correct and I do argue it,

Don’t argue it ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 13:03 
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If you argue it in court you will get 6 points, a large fine and large costs.
Your chances of winning are nil.
You were breaking the speed limit.
90 quid and no points seems a good result....and you may learn something !

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 13:47 
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Hi Annie, and welcome!

Steve has already told you all you need to know, really. Yes, it's pretty unlucky, but you're not alone. My wife was done for 79 on an empty dry motorway a few years ago - as Steve said 10% +2 is when they start raking in the dosh - not the top of the limit ABOVE which they start prosecuting. The other question (which you needn't answer!) is "Were you doing 68"? IF so, as jomukuk says, your best bet is to cough up and take it on the chin. There used to be a time when "justice" meant having a chance to argue your case in court. It still does, but they can get pretty "spiteful" if you loose - they don't like to be challenged! HOWEVER, If you're well-heeled and can afford a decent lawyer, AND you believe you weren't speeding, it is still possible to win! They don't always use their equipment correctly.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 15:40 
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Annie87 wrote:
However, a few people have mentioned to me that I was 'unlucky' as apparently you are allowed 10%+2. If so surely this covers me?
The 10% + 2mph is guidance from the Association of Chief Police Officers and not law. Any speed over the posted limit is an offence - even 60.1MPH in a 60.

Having a prosecution level above the minimum allows people to "drift" a little over the limit without fear of prosecution. You seem to have "drifted" just a little too far over.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 15:54 
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Mole wrote:
they can get pretty "spiteful" if you loose - they don't like to be challenged

If police or SCP catch a driver at a speed which is sufficiently over the limit for them to take action, but not high enough to warrant issuing a summons for court, they issue a fixed penalty ticket. If the driver decides to exercise his or her right to challenge the ticket, the evidence goes to the Crown Prosecution Service who decide whether or not to prosecute. If they do prosecute, it goes to court where the case is decided by magistrates.

The police or SCP will appear as witnesses. They do not prosecute the case. They do not decide on the verdict. If the verdict is guilty they have no influence over the sentence imposed. The sentence imposed by the court will be in line with the guidelines issued by the Sentencing Guidelines Council.

In short, there is no opportunity for the police or SCP to be "spiteful".

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 16:03 
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jomukuk wrote:
If you argue it in court you will get 6 points, a large fine and large costs.
The guideline for 68 in a 60 is 3 points, a small fine and costs which will vary depending on the length of the trial. Any financial penalty will based on ability to pay.

jomukuk wrote:
Your chances of winning are nil.
People often win cases of this kind.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 16:22 
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fisherman wrote:
In short, there is no opportunity for the police or SCP to be "spiteful".

Hmmm...

They can still call on RSS if they think there is any chance of it going against them. Maybe not spiteful but it has the appearance of unfairness to the casual observer.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 16:24 
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fisherman wrote:
jomukuk wrote:
Your chances of winning are nil.
People often win cases of this kind.
Yeah, rich people and police ;)

:welcome: Annie

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 17:39 
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malcolmw wrote:
They can still call on RSS if they think there is any chance of it going against them. Maybe not spiteful but it has the appearance of unfairness to the casual observer.

Both sides are entitled to call upon anybody who can give (what they hope will be ) relevant testimony. Going on my personal experience, I see far more cases of the defence calling high priced and frequently irrelevant "experts" than the CPS.

I think you have got it exactly right. Casual observers see all sorts of things, all too often things that only exist in their fertile imaginations.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 17:41 
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Big Tone wrote:
Yeah, rich people and police ;)
And people who represent themselves armed with nothing more than a bit of internet research.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 18:08 
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Annie: take the course, keep your gob shut on the day and get back behind the wheel.

:)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 21:52 
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fisherman wrote:
Mole wrote:
they can get pretty "spiteful" if you loose - they don't like to be challenged

If police or SCP catch a driver at a speed which is sufficiently over the limit for them to take action, but not high enough to warrant issuing a summons for court, they issue a fixed penalty ticket. If the driver decides to exercise his or her right to challenge the ticket, the evidence goes to the Crown Prosecution Service who decide whether or not to prosecute. If they do prosecute, it goes to court where the case is decided by magistrates.

The police or SCP will appear as witnesses. They do not prosecute the case. They do not decide on the verdict. If the verdict is guilty they have no influence over the sentence imposed. The sentence imposed by the court will be in line with the guidelines issued by the Sentencing Guidelines Council.

In short, there is no opportunity for the police or SCP to be "spiteful".


Sorry, I understand that, but should have been clearer. by "they", I meant "the authories" in the broader sense. We've only JUST managed to prevent the change in the law that would have prevented us from recovering anything above minimal costs - even if we won!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 16:11 
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PEPIPOO will work the fine/cost out for you if you go to court and are convicted.

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56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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