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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 16:44 
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hi any one got any advice.
i have just recieved a speeding ticket for 43mph in a 30mph thanks to a van, i live in a road that joins as a t juntion there are no speed limit signs as you turn onto the main road the only signs are 2 small 30mph signs with speed camera signs one at each end of the road that is about 1mile long,no other warning signs at all along the whole stretch i have always assumed this road was a 40mph zone as there are no buildings fronting it.
regards
pat


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 18:21 
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:welcome: pat01902

Are there any street lights along this road as this can indicate a 30mph without the need to repeater signs ?
I am not clear how the van fits into this situation exactly ?
If you live near this road are you not 'otherwise aware' of it's speed?

Did the NIP (Notice of Intended Prosecution) arrive within the required 14days (unless a company owned vehicle in principal).
Are you being offered a speed awareness course at all ?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 18:59 
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In the absence of any signs saying otherwise, a road with streetlighting will always be a 30 limit, even if there are few or no buildings along it. Deceptive roads like this are a favourite haunt of camera vans :x

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 19:41 
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Quote:

In the absence of any signs saying otherwise, a road with streetlighting will always be a 30 limit, even if there are few or no buildings along it. Deceptive roads like this are a favourite haunt of camera vans :x


When I first started driving, I got caught doing just the same, drivng between what was two villages then, along a very dimly lit country road (it was 1973 and the streetlights had probably been around since the 1950s), with no signs that I noticed but streetlights, "supposedly" the required distance apart. I was doing about 50MPH which seemed a pretty fair speed for a very quiet, poorly lit,road in a non built up area.(NSL roads were 70MPH then)

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 20:26 
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yep street lights,its a new site for the van its a new purpose made pull maked police keep clear i just wonderd how they stand with no advance warning signs when you enter this road from a side street i thought speed cameras had to be high profile to force you to slow down or slam ya brakes on and risk a rear end shunt friggin thing is sighted just around a bend as you come over canal bridge,aint had the nip yet but my company rang me to say they have it for me lol,can i ask for speed awarness training or do they have to offer it to you,last nip was 2007 78mph in a 70mph zone


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 21:14 
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pat01902 wrote:
yep street lights,
That makes it a 30mph without the need for repeater signs. There should be new signs from one street to another if the road speeds are different. (I believe but signing is complicated in the details, and your specific situation would need to be properly checked.)

pat01902 wrote:
its a new site for the van its a new purpose made pull maked police keep clear i just wonderd how they stand with no advance warning signs when you enter this road from a side street i thought speed cameras had to be high profile
They need to have the van marked but they sometimes have the door/s open and the sign is not very visible at all. Many do have signs further down the road prior to the camera location but this is no longer a requirement.

pat01902 wrote:
to force you to slow down or slam ya brakes on and risk a rear end shunt
This is not the reason that they make speed enforcement vans 'marked'. You are expected to be driving safely which is best done by ensuring that you are able to stop in the distance that you know to be 'clear' (no potential / hazards). The aim is not to have to slam brakes on or cause rear end shunts of course ! :)

pat01902 wrote:
... is sighted just around a bend as you come over canal bridge,
They are placing many camera vans in locations where you obtain little warning, prior to being within range of being 'caught' if you are travelling at a higher than legal limit.

pat01902 wrote:
aint had the nip yet but my company rang me to say they have it for me lol,
If you can ensure that the NIP (Notice of Intended Prosecution) arrived with them within the required 14 days. They really ought to have them stamped on arrival. However there is a 6mth period for you to be notified and for you to respond, but you need to take legal advice - I am not a lawyer and cannot legally advise you.
You can try pepipoo forums where there are several lawyers.
pat01902 wrote:
can i ask for speed awareness training or do they have to offer it to you,
They may offer it, if that authority has it as an option, but I have never heard of someone asking for it but you might try - certainly nothing to loose by asking, but take care that you never admit to 'speeding' in your approach - in case you consult a lawyer later and need to tell him what you have already stated etc. So put everything in writing as this keeps a clear record.
pat01902 wrote:
last nip was 2007 78mph in a 70mph zone
That will usually only effect your insurance nothing else unless your job contract has an issue with it. I assume since your Company has notified you that you have a company vehicle?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 01:18 
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Can you post a Google Street view link? It's worth a look to see if the lightas are the correct distance apart etc.
I understood lights had to be accompanied by houses AND NO REPEATERS.
Yet
Quote:
the only signs are 2 small 30mph signs with speed camera signs one at each end of the road


A comparison with TSM 2008 is required I think! Anton is your man here!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 01:25 
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www.speedlimit.org.uk wrote:
Any road with regular street lighting has a default speed limit of 30 mph unless signs indicate otherwise. The entry to a 30 mph zone must be marked by a "30" sign on both sides of the road, but no repeater signs are permitted within the zone (on the grounds that they might be confusing if some roads had them and others didn't). "30" roundels on the road surface are however permitted, with a special dispensation.

In some circumstances, where a side road has a lower limit than the main road, only one speed limit sign for the lower limit is needed, on the left-hand side of the road, and no signs at all are needed for the higher limit if there are repeater signs on the main road indicating the limit within 100 yards of the junction.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 01:38 
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So as I thought the crucial point is - does the road that joins with the 'T' junction of a different speed to the 30mph road.
Although this point says 'some circumstances', than required or necessary, ... so it can be possible that no sign is necessary to meet the current required standards.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:32 
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right as you drive down the road you are in a 30mph you are passing a school you come to a ghost island if you go straight on the road is 40mph with a sign on each side of the road facing you if you turn left you have only one 30mph sign facing you on you left on a lampost no sign on other side ss google earth wv8 1ue look at where the droveway meets barnhurst lane i was caught along the droveway 3-400m after the canal bridge heading east


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 17:54 
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The southern half of Barnhurst lane seems to be 30MPH and the northern part is 40MPH and changes just as you approach the island so unless there are 40MPH signs after the island, as you go up the drove way, it would still be a 30MPH limit.

i used to travel that area some 6-10 years ago but can't remember what the speed limits were then or even if that part of pendeford was bulit.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:34 
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Googlemaps here.

The street lamps make this road a 30mph after the mini roundabout leading to 2nd section of Barnhurst Lane which is clearly a 40mph (at the start anyway). Google maps does not go down that section so I cannot tell much more without more digging.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 19:50 
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As you come south down Barnhurst lane the 40 limit changes to 30.
As you turn left down The Droveway the 30 limit is still in force and the street lights should inform you of that.
As you come down The Droveway towards Barnhurst lane the 30 limit is in force, and if you turn left into Barnhurst lane the limit is still 30 because there is no other indication of any other limit.
Streetview seems to cover all of it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 23:27 
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Ensuring that the Council has all the right Orders in place for that stretch of road precisely. If the Order is not completely correct then that may have a great bearing on your case.

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