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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 14:51 
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i had dropped my son off at school at 8.55 am, and was in a position whereby i had to either reverse 15-20 yards back up the lane or do a 3 point turn by the school gate. As it was 8.55 and the inside gate was locked there were no children about i thought it would be ok to do this. I have never parked this far down before but there were no spaces when i arrived except one close by the entrance so i used it.(against my better judgement :( ) there are yellow zigag lines outside the gate, but as i never parked there, i only turned there, i thought it was quite ok. i was not rushing at all and as i approached the gate and stopped, i put my car in reverse and went to go back but a few mums came out of the school so i stopped and waited for them to pass to the side of my car, as i wanted to reverse into the track that they would have been crossing. passenger side. one mum stayed just to my left and did not cross so i thought she must be waiting for someone. i looked around and they had all passed over and were on the other side by now walking back up the lane away from my car. i looked again and started to reverse again slowly, i had gone about 3 feet and my reverse sensor started to beep quickly and i saw a shadow scurry past the back of the car from driver to passenger side. i immediately stopped and looked and there was a woman with a small child in hand. I mouthed through the window at her, 'what the hell are you doing?' as she had quite clearly walked/ran behind my car because she was late for school. she said a few choice words back at me and walked over to the path where this other woman was, and started talk to her. I was dumfounded!!! At no time did i feel any impact and my sensors did not slowly beep increasing to a fast beep, it was a sudden fast beep. The woman/women did not approach me at any time to say there had been a collision and i was there looking at them for about 10 seconds waiting for them to say something but they never did. I carried on reversing, and then drove out of the lane. passing the other women that i had let cross about 20 ft up the lane, walking away.

later that day I had a generic text from school telling parents to report unsafe driving at the school. I was sure this was aimed at me and was cross so i called the school and asked them to send out a text also telling parents not to cross the road when unsafe to do so but this never happened.

nothing more was said by anyone and so i went on my way. 2 weeks later i had NIP saying that i might be charged. there was a collision leaflet in the pack and i wondered what this was for so when i went to the school that day i asked the woman what had occurred; she said that i had hit her 5 year old. i was upset and said i hadn't, and why hadn't she said this when i stopped and shouted at her there and then to address this if i had done so. i asked her why she thought it was ok to walk behind my car whilst i was reversing and she said that i started to reverse when she was in the road, which was not true.

the group of women she was with were very antagonistic towards me and so i left, One in particular was telling me that i hit the girl, and i asked her if she was there and she said ‘no’ so how could she say anything. she was obviously being told this by the girls mum.
another told me to ‘wait for her statement’ i was upset, so i went home.
2 weeks had passed and not one person said anything to me.

i sent in my details with a full explanation/statement of events as i saw it and waited for a response.
A while later i had a message to call the police to arrange interview which i did, then phoned to cancel the next day, as i had to go to Barnsley unexpectedly . I spoke to an officer to cancel/rearrange and they assured me the message would be passed on but it never was and they turned up at my house only for my son to tell them i had had to go out. i got a phone call whilst in Barnsley asking me why i was not there and i explained again that i had called yesterday to cancel and was told that not to worry we would arrange something else;that someone would get back to me. no one did for a while then I was left messages on my answerphone but each time i rang back there was never anyone involved who was there to take my call only their answer machines, and i always left messages. I always responded to their messages left on my machines. it was just a case of missing each other. I never thought anything of it at all, then i received the summons for the 5th July and in a statement by a police officer, he has said that i was purposefully avoiding interview and i had ‘decided’ to go to Barnsley instead.
This is totally untrue, i have my phone records to show the times that i called the station and they would coincide with what i have said. i work as a mobile hairdresser and so cannot answer all my calls immediately but i did try to get hold of 3 officers. (i have their names) I wrote the appointment in my appointments book and wrote a note on the same to say it had been cancelled.
Then to cap it all, there are apparently now 2 other witnesses.
One who was definitely there as she stated in the position she had put on the plan. but the others were not.
she was on her own but another woman has put that she was in the same spot as her, this being one of the women i had stopped to let cross, so how could she have been where she said she was?
the last one says that her attention was only caught when another shouted oh my god. but never actually saw anything. her statement was taken on the 20th of April 3 months after the incident.

Now, i am not disputing that i was there or that an ‘incident’ took place, what i am disputing is ‘was it my fault? and i don't think it was as i was trying to be so careful, letting others pass, but she just came from nowhere.

i feel as though all the evidence is stacked against me as i know 110% that one of the women is lying about her position in the incident and the others are saying that i knew the mother and child were crossing

I would really like advice on this as i hate the thought of pleading guilty, as i feel i am not. (£60 fine and 3-6 points) or go to court to plead my case and still be found guilty because of lies, and then get more costs and points. i know this will cost me at least £1000 if i get a solicitor, which i cannot afford at all.
I am, as i said before a mobile hairdresser and need a clean licence for this job to be successful, and the thought of Driving without due care on my licence is mortifying. the thought that i would deliberately reverse into a mother and child is just absurd, especially as i had just stopped to let others pass.

I have all of the witness statements in hand They all say the same thing pretty much, they are all very clicky there and dislike cars driving near the school, which i totally understand in some cases but as i lived 5 miles from the school, i had no choice but to drive.
I will also add, that, as a result of the following insults and dirty looks since this, i have been so upset by it all that i have moved my son out of the school after breaking down in the headmistresses office one day when i told her what was happening.
all i want to know is, what are my chances of getting the magistrate to believe me over this clique who have not been totally honest.
I dont want to get any more stressed out and i think the easy option is to plead guilty but i am so so cross , because i didnt think i was. i wonder how long it would be before i got a letter form a compensation claim if i do plead guilty? but as i said before i cannot afford the costs. but also do not want this on my licence either. sad.gif sooooo confused


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 00:10 
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Well that's a long post, the like of which rivals how mine used to be :roll:

It's indicative of a problem which you obviously feel very passionate about, and wronged, and wish to include each and every last detail. (I understand why).

The problem is posts like yours often get overlooked because the likelihood of a long post being read or answered is inversely proportional to its length; it’s a theory of mine. But I’ll try and put it into some perspective, if I may, which may or may not be correct but seeing as I'm an insomniac lately...

It's impossible for anyone here to know exactly what did or didn't happen and the ‘he said she said’ argument etc. etc. That's not being cruel to you, it's just how it is dude, okay?

So either you have been stitched-up or you haven't, although you do concede that you made an unwise manoeuvre and, given the circumstances, I think you may agree that in hindsight it wasn't the best thing to do around kids who have never been taught road manners? (Or road 'matters' - play on words there.)

You have to remember that kids today, and their dumb parents, think roads are just an extension of the pavement, (or unofficial playground), and safe haven for their children over which said parents are absolved of any and all responsibility. They also believe that if every driver went around at 5mph everywhere there wouldn’t be a problem. They have a point but they would soon discover a different sort of problem which would affect them and everyone else in the country which is arguably much bigger. (separate thread?).

Anyway, there are great guys here on Safe Speed who are very helpful and informative on your specific problem, if they are watching right now, but another forum you may find helpful where this type of question is often directed is Pepipoo It’s free but you do have to register. :)

I can see this is obviously a great concern for you and I don’t know if the weight of ‘evidence’ from ‘ordinary people’ is enough. If the kid had been admitted to hospital there would be a record, but I assume the kid wasn't so this all seems very ‘woolly’ at the moment.

Worst case scenario: If you do get done, (rightly or wrongly), it will bug the crap out of you! But life goes on, you won't lose your licence if <12 points, and maybe you should just think of it as ‘character-building’; like I’ve had to do in the past when I’ve gnashed my own teeth into dust over an injustice.

If you have your health and love in your life, it’s small stuff really when you put it into its true perspective. So don’t give it too much free rent in your head bud. Live your life and be happy. :) Don’t be a miserable twisted nob-head with a warped distorted cynical view of the world like me. Image

Take care and don’t worry. In years to come you'll wonder why it was at the top of your angry list - trust me :wink:

Tone Image

(I'm trying for the most unhelpful post of the year award :D )

P.S. If you're over my way any time soon I could use a hair cut; a short back and shine :(

:P

PPS: Seriously, do please keep in touch here and let us know how you get on if you will? :) & :welcome:

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 03:10 
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angiross wrote:
I would really like advice on this as i hate the thought of pleading guilty, as i feel i am not. (£60 fine and 3-6 points) or go to court to plead my case and still be found guilty because of lies, and then get more costs and points. i know this will cost me at least £1000 if i get a solicitor, which i cannot afford at all.


There is no need for a solicitor, if you believe you are not guilty then you should attend court and plead not guilty. You have the right to appeal, then it would be a good idea to get a professional in.

Quote:
all i want to know is, what are my chances of getting the magistrate to believe me over this clique who have not been totally honest.


You might find that faced with the prospect of having to tell the same story under oath their memories are suddenly not so clear.

Magistrates are normal people and they don't automatically believe one story just because more than one person tells it.

You might want to take a long hard look at what you have written though, especially the bit about mother and child magically appearing behind your car and the first thing you knew about it was your parking sensors going off. Just a thought. You have been charged with driving without due care and attention, not leaving the scene of an accident.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:49 
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Homer wrote:
angiross wrote:
I would really like advice on this as i hate the thought of pleading guilty, as i feel i am not. (£60 fine and 3-6 points) or go to court to plead my case and still be found guilty because of lies, and then get more costs and points. i know this will cost me at least £1000 if i get a solicitor, which i cannot afford at all.


There is no need for a solicitor, if you believe you are not guilty then you should attend court and plead not guilty. You have the right to appeal, then it would be a good idea to get a professional in.

Quote:
all i want to know is, what are my chances of getting the magistrate to believe me over this clique who have not been totally honest.


You might find that faced with the prospect of having to tell the same story under oath their memories are suddenly not so clear.

Magistrates are normal people and they don't automatically believe one story just because more than one person tells it.

You might want to take a long hard look at what you have written though, especially the bit about mother and child magically appearing behind your car and the first thing you knew about it was your parking sensors going off. Just a thought. You have been charged with driving without due care and attention, not leaving the scene of an accident.

the charge states that at' such and such time you did drive without due care etc in that you parked your car on yellow zig zag lines at entrance to school and whilst reversing collided with a 5 year old girl who was walking behind the car toward school


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 14:01 
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wittiness statements may be helpful to pick apart.

the mothers statement is as follows.

me and my daughter were walking to school and the car in question was parked on the zigzag lines right up to school gates
, no one could get past so had to walk behind to get into school, we were the last in a little line of people , the lady in the car obviously didn't look behind, put car in reverse and swung round hitting e on her right shoulder and arm, made her stumble on her feet but wasn't knocked over, i then put e to safety and went to the window for a response,

'she started shouting at me but window was closed so I couldn't hear what she said, then she drove off.

In part of the statement it says, if this person did not stop would they have been aware of the accident? answer. Yes, because she stopped and started shouting at me,
comments made were: couldn't hear, window closed.


witness 1;
I was standing in p.. n... lane on the corner outside the school gates . the car was stationery right up to the closed school gates on the yellow keep clear markings, R & E began to cross the road behind the vehicle; when they were behind it, it started to reverse. as i don't drive i cant estimate the speed but it was very slow. The car continued to reverse until it appeared to make contact with E then stopped. there wasn't a noise from the collision but you could see that the car was touching E. R walked around to the passenger side of the car and i could see the driver saying something to R but i couldn't hear what either of them said the driver did not put her window down or get out of the car, she then continued to reverse and drive off up the road.

12.g; on the statement form; if this person did not stop would they have been aware of the accident.her response; she knew someone was behind her but impossible to know if she felt impact.



witness 2:
I was leaving the school and saw a car reversing immediately in front of the school gates r & E were crossing in front of the gates to get into school and i gasped as it looked like the car was not going to stop. the car did stop extremely close to R & E. i do not know if the car actually hit then but it was incredibly close, i said something like, 'oh my god' and the woman driver made some comments from within the car and then drove away. she did not get out of the car or converse with anybody R & E seemed shaken but not hurt so i left.


again 12.g; on the statement form; if this person did not stop would they have been aware of the accident.her response;
i don't know there was no loud noise but they may have felt it.


witness 3; (another that had already crossed to go up the lane)

i didnt actually see the car make contact with E however i could see it was very close. my attention was only caught when J B shouted 'oh my god' as she was leaving the school gates and had obviously seen how close it came too.
12.g; on the statement form; if this person did not stop would they have been aware of the accident.her response; i dont think she was aware that contact had actually been made

(either witness 1 or 2 was one of the women i had let cross over the road, to my side, yet she states she was in the same spot as the other witness. but she was already on her way back up the lane) i do not really know these women's names only faces, so would only be able to tell which one was standing on the path if i actually saw her again. i would be able to say, who was where, if you understand that. :S




Notes: i did not park there. its a dead end and i was turning round.
i did not hit the child. she went into school as usual, and it was not the mother who reported anything but the no.1 witness mentioned to the head that the child had been hit, then changed to the child had been brushed past.
is this helpful?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 18:25 
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Yes.
Quote:
continued to reverse and drive off up the road.


Typical muddied statement. Continued to reverse AND drive off up the road?
A solicitor will pick up on things like this.

I sent you a PM - if you have not received a notification, look in the message notification below the logo above left.

Get some expert help and an idea of possible costs.

I am sure some will think you should have stopped and got out of the car to remonstrate with them - but the account you gave, and the statements don't seem to indicate that it was obvious that there was any contact made, and a parent with a child SHOULD have shown more common sense.

The Highway Code applies to pedestrians as well as drivers!

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