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 Post subject: just been flashed
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 13:23 
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Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
Or was I.
Knew camera was there, so kept to indicated 30 along stretch ,an as safety precaution always drop to approx 28 entering the zone.Just looked up from speedo to see car pull out on me an overtake .Of course we get flashed .I've got his number .
Know if my speedo showing 25-28 ,I'm in clear ,but with the thrust to makecash ,fully expecting a NIP.
Just wondering how to proceed and what precautions to take beforehand just in case .
Aditionally -might it be worth reporting ,as IMHO in that location,it could be at least Due care .
BTW- can confirm that this camera is now a Monitron, and the additional "light fitting" seems to do nothing in this case.

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 Post subject: Re: just been flashed
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 22:42 
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Wait and see if you get the NIP, when you do you return it saying who was driving but refuse the offer of a fixed penalty.

Then you wait until you get a summons and then request their evidence. At which point they hopefully actually check it. If not then you turn up in court and claim all your expenses.


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 Post subject: Re: just been flashed
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 22:54 
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Homer wrote:
Wait and see if you get the NIP, when you do you return it saying who was driving but refuse the offer of a fixed penalty.

Then you wait until you get a summons and then request their evidence. At which point they hopefully actually check it. If not then you turn up in court and claim all your expenses.

Thank mate :clap:
Don't think he'll get a course -my speed (indicated) =25-28 an he'd passed me before we were halfway along markings .
That's my attitude .Know I shouldn't worry ,and if it was someone else ,would tell them not to worry ,but at end of day can do without all the hastle because of some idiot who can't see a set of markings on the road ,or a great big yellow box on a pole on the pavement .
On the comical side that's put a hole in the idea that offenceson't happen at camera sites .I shall certainly be passing on my account to our local county man ,who hates the things and loks for any chance to ridicule their affect on road safety .

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 Post subject: Re: just been flashed
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 19:25 
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Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
So far no items in post .What is maximum time to time out .Know it's something like 14ays ,but is that from date ,or from next day .

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 Post subject: Re: just been flashed
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 21:14 
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The total time is 15 days, to be in receipt of NIP, but they have no need to record when they send it. The time is 14 days from the day of offence, but 15 inc the day of the offence. If Company vehicle then 6mths. (Assuming that all paperwork is in order and current address details are correct and that you are the reg keeper of the vehicle - of course) :)

Sorry to hear about the overtaking car under such circumstances but less surprised as people get so frustrated.
Do not admit to the offence, nor pay the fine if you wish to plead not guilty. If they are confusing your car with the other car then this ought to be picked up on at the viewing by processing staff.
I would expect that a double car presence would invalidate any attempted prosecution. Both vehicle sensors need to trigger (within their pre-defined perimeters), to demonstrate the offence, but if two vehicles are shown within the sensor's measurement area, I cannot see how they can be sure which did what.
Should anything arrive then request the images.
Have you got a location for us to check it out ?

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 Post subject: Re: just been flashed
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 23:41 
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Thanks ,Claire - pretty certain I won't hear anything. It was last Monday (

so I'd have thought I'd have heard something by now . What narks me is that in the circumstances BIB would have one him for due care - overtaking ,over the limit , in the presence of a junction .I know my speed was well under - as I take care in the first few yards to get under the threshold ,and after that - it don't seem to matter.So much for Safety . However - there is a question - what is the type approval height for Monitrons ? . Might be worth a FOI on this camera - don't want to rock the boat till after the NIP times out ,but might do something aftr that . Anyone know of the type approval for a Monitron 's height ?
As homer said - wait for NIP,plead not guilty ,get photo ,and get compo .
I'm happy that I'm not guilty -prat passed me in half the length of the markings- so I'm convinced he set the camera off .

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 Post subject: Re: just been flashed
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 17:44 
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There is no height specification in the type approval.

The system uses road sensors so the height and offset is immaterial.

I think the standard heights for the poles are 3.5m and 4.5m.

The system shouldn't output a file if the secondary check isn't correct. The system also identifies the lane in which the vehicle triggering the device is located. The close-up view of the registration is lane dependent so the operator in the back-office checking the speed violations should be directed to the correct vehicle triggering the camera.

If your vehicle was passed on the check marks then it will be obvious which vehicle is the speed violation. Of course if you were in excess of the limit both vehicles will be measured as long as there was sufficient time between the 2 measurements.

There you go; saves an FoI.


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 Post subject: Re: just been flashed
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 20:13 
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GreenShed wrote:
There is no height specification in the type approval.

The system uses road sensors so the height and offset is immaterial.


Road sensors -none in this case .Are you certain we're talking about same type of camera :shock:
GreenShed wrote:
T The system also identifies the lane in which the vehicle triggering the device is located. The close-up view of the registration is lane dependent so the operator in the back-office checking the speed violations should be directed to the correct vehicle triggering the camera.

.

1) Road is single carriage way( possibly wide enough to be three lane) ,so with overtaking vehicle
would be in centre of road .( an in this case with proximity to a junction ,PROPER road safety enforcement would have resulted in overtaking driver getting a tad more than £60 & 3 points)
It's the advertised back office checks ( or the advertised lack of )which bothers me .Personally I know I was within the limit -have passed that camera hundreds of times at same speed ,and on this occassion I double checked my speed for my records.
GreenShed wrote:

There you go; saves an FoI.

Thank you -personally I 'd sooner rely on a FOI to my local SCP .Above all else I can rely on backup from my county county councillor If I get any flannel or if they're economical with the truth
Personally ,thinking back ,i doubt if I'll hear any more .

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 Post subject: Re: just been flashed
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 21:38 
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botach wrote:
GreenShed wrote:
The system uses road sensors so the height and offset is immaterial.


Road sensors -none in this case .Are you certain we're talking about same type of camera :shock:

All Monitrons I have seen use sensors buried in the road.
I have heard of radar based Monitrons, but I don't recall ever seeing one.

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 Post subject: Re: just been flashed
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 22:19 
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Steve wrote:
botach wrote:
GreenShed wrote:
The system uses road sensors so the height and offset is immaterial.


Road sensors -none in this case .Are you certain we're talking about same type of camera :shock:

All Monitrons I have seen use sensors buried in the road.
I have heard of radar based Monitrons, but I don't recall ever seeing one.


Definately no sign of road disturbance ,and road has not had any works one on it .This was one of the modified Gatso sites with the additional light source ( as per my FOI to Warks SCP)) .The flash came from the camera ,not the secondary source ,so I conclude that this is not a digital Gatso in Monitron case .What is unuasual is that this camera is mounted on the origonal Gatso post .but from Speedcam site ,only camera that matches this one is a monitron .It is identical to the monitrons i've seen in Lonon suburbs ,except for the height of the pole . Might try an get a photo or three .Holding back on FOI ,in case i need to know line spacing and flash timings .

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 Post subject: Re: just been flashed
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 15:37 
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botach wrote:
Steve wrote:
botach wrote:
GreenShed wrote:
The system uses road sensors so the height and offset is immaterial.


Road sensors -none in this case .Are you certain we're talking about same type of camera :shock:

All Monitrons I have seen use sensors buried in the road.
I have heard of radar based Monitrons, but I don't recall ever seeing one.


Definately no sign of road disturbance ,and road has not had any works one on it .This was one of the modified Gatso sites with the additional light source ( as per my FOI to Warks SCP)) .The flash came from the camera ,not the secondary source ,so I conclude that this is not a digital Gatso in Monitron case .What is unuasual is that this camera is mounted on the origonal Gatso post .but from Speedcam site ,only camera that matches this one is a monitron .It is identical to the monitrons i've seen in Lonon suburbs ,except for the height of the pole . Might try an get a photo or three .Holding back on FOI ,in case i need to know line spacing and flash timings .

You need to make your mind up what you are talking about; from earlier:
botach wrote:
BTW- can confirm that this camera is now a Monitron,...

The digital cameras in Warwickshire are Gatsometer Digital systems.
Monitron cameras all work with sub-surface sensors but do not have a supplementary flash system as the digital Gatsometers do.
Gatsometers are radar based and the second pole is a supplementary flash as mentioned above. Of course the jury was out on just what that second post was if you can recall that far back.
As you prefer your information from other sources you are welcome to do that; good luck with that; you will be as well informed as you were and perhaps still are regarding that second post.
As it is a Gatsometer you will need to see if the secondary check has been completed correctly to identify the vehicle triggering the camera if you receive a notice. If you don't then you won't. Let's hope they do the job better than your skill at spotting what type they are.
By the way, Monitron and latterly Redspeed have never used any radar in the UK.


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 Post subject: Re: just been flashed
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 16:41 
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GS said
Greenshed wrote:
The digital cameras in Warwickshire are Gatsometer Digital systems.
Monitron cameras all work with sub-surface sensors but do not have a supplementary flash system as the digital Gatsometers do.
Gatsometers are radar based and the second pole is a supplementary flash as mentioned above. Of course the jury was out on just what that second post was if you can recall that far back.


BTW-if you look at posts on this supplemental flash unit -you will find that after a lot of ho hah from people supposed in know ( i.e so called camera professionals) about this unit ,I submitted a FOI to Warks ,after my initial enquiry got the same result .Foi answer is that it is an additional flash unit .

Regarding
Greenshed wrote:
The digital cameras in Warwickshire are Gatsometer Digital systems.


Not All are Digital - part of the FOI answer was that this aditional flash unit is needed by digital units .I can think of some that do not have this aditional flash -one that springs to mind is one that was destroyed before it ever came on line ( camp hill road Nuneaton ,as featured on Speedcam).
This particular camera ( Greenmoor road) ,replaced by something unknown ,lets say for arguement ,sits on a Gatso pole ,but has no giveaway Gatso sumbol on the rear , and has more of the shape of a monitron than a Gatso .All other Gatso's in the county are square ,this one is rectangular and far deeper than the Gatso's and on this occasion the aditional flash unit gave no output .The only flash camefrom the camera .There might have been two flashes ,but times I've seen vehicles get flashed by the previous camera ,boyh were distinct .

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 Post subject: Re: just been flashed
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 16:46 
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To resolve this minor point:

Botach,

could you provide a Google link to the location in question? You can PM me with the details if you prefer not to broadcast the location. Then I can do some virtual digging and confirm what is going on there.

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 Post subject: Re: just been flashed
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 18:28 
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I think you are looking at something like this:
Image
GATSO Serco Smart Pole
The Smart Pole™ offers a modern option for fixed enforcement equipment such as speed cameras or ANPR. It enables quick and effortless access to the device at ground level.
http://www.crown-international.co.uk/smart-pole/gatso-serco-smart-pole/


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 Post subject: Re: just been flashed
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 20:08 
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GreenShed wrote:
I think you are looking at something like this:
Image
GATSO Serco Smart Pole
The Smart Pole™ offers a modern option for fixed enforcement equipment such as speed cameras or ANPR. It enables quick and effortless access to the device at ground level.
http://www.crown-international.co.uk/smart-pole/gatso-serco-smart-pole/

Very similar ,must admit ,but the one (F024) has a straight rear end ,an certainly no label on the front .F024 ismore boxlike .
Just ha a trip to F020 (Camphill road B4114) which does not have any additional lighting ,therefore from FOI it is still a Film camera ( or an empty box)

Now ,I've had a look at the accident figures etc on Warks website (speed camera stats) and this camera (F024) stats are virtually constant over the years .Perhaps as a self confessed road safety expert ,you'd like to explain why as since aprox summer 2009 to a few months ago it was a burnt out wreck .An no ,it was not vandalised -it self ignited one hot summer day about 1400hrs .I'd have a look on Speedcam but my dongle thinks that it nees to be content locke .

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 Post subject: Re: just been flashed
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 06:42 
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There is a bit more relating to their poles here : http://www.crown-international.co.uk/pr ... mart-pole/

Perhaps you can get us a photo ? ... or email it to me if you prefer.

Greenshed are you confirming then that the secondary check is the flash or the office checker /operator?

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