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 Post subject: Not getting points
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 09:56 
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I was (apparently) caught speeding in a 30mph zone twice within a couple of weeks on a road I travel along every day -
I had assumed that the road was 40mph as a couple of hundred yards previously it passes a school and is 40mph there.
The section I was caught on has a very long (and large) grassed area on one side and a large factory site on the other -
I had not realised that this was a 30mph zone - and I cannot recall passing any roadside "speed vans or cars",
as they would have stood out easily.
I hire vans each weekend and have currently got a clean licence - if I get the "6 points" for these occasions then
I will be unable to hire the van and therefore my business would have to close.
What can I do ??


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 Post subject: Re: Not getting points
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:26 
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Can you give us a GoogleMaps link to the location where you were caught? (I'll understand if for reasons of confidentiality you prefer not to)

If the 30 mph signs coming out of the 40 limit are missing then you will have a valid defence.

Do you mention 6 points because you are a newly-qualified driver and that would mean you had to take a retest, or just because van hire companies tend to refuse anyone with 6 points?

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed


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 Post subject: Re: Not getting points
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:15 
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Hi the location is between DH3 2TB and DH3 4BB, they havent stated an exact location.

There are signs which indicate 30mph - but at the DH3 4BB end it is 40mph - and passing along a school.

I have been driving for 25 years - and I assumed I would get 3 points for each time I was apparently caught.

So with 6 points on my licence hire companies will not hire out their vans, and therefore my business would
have to close down.

When it goes to court - would I be able to "argue" over the points being added ??


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 Post subject: Re: Not getting points
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:50 
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The 30 mph starts here, so in the absence of any other speed limit signs to the north the argument that you weren't aware it was a 30 won't hold any legal weight.

I would certainly agree that once you get to here it looks as though it should be a 40 but, providing that the limit is correctly signed, speeding is a strict liability offence and there's no point in disputing the appropriateness of the limit.

There is also a precedent for two offences on the same day being effectively treated as one, but you're unlikely to make that stick if they were separated by two weeks.

There's nothing else I can really suggest and unfortunately you will just have to bite the bullet.

As a more general point, this illustrates one of the key drawbacks of automated speed enforcement. If you had been pulled over by a copper the first time, it wouldn't have happened the second time.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed


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 Post subject: Re: Not getting points
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:02 
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I have heard of other people not having the "points" - but having the fine -
especially van drivers etc who have to drive for a living -

I dont drive for a living - but without being able to hire vans, every weekend, I cant do 90% of my business,
without having to pay someone else to drive - which would drive my costs up and put me out of business.


I have driven along this particular road every day for 7 years - and I know I should have known better -
but I wonder if there is a good reason for "only getting 3 points" instead of 6


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 Post subject: Re: Not getting points
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 13:45 
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retep wrote:
I dont drive for a living - but without being able to hire vans, every weekend, I cant do 90% of my business,
without having to pay someone else to drive - which would drive my costs up and put me out of business.

:welcome: retep

Heading North at Vigo lane it definitely changes from the 40mph to 30mph as PeterE has already mentioned.

The fact that you hire vans every week would tell me and most people that a major part of your work involves driving. The fact that may not be a driver in the sense of a taxi service is neither here nor there. You do 'drive for a living' insomuch as it is a core part of your work. Also you have the added benefit (esp in these recession times) that the company that you use will also suffer as you can no longer provide them with the business, which I would have thought they would also be very concerned about.
You may approach them and ask them if they would consider making you an exception?

Did the hire company confirm with you without any doubt whatsoever that your organisation had those vans at that time?
Did they inform you pretty immediately of the Notices of Intended Prosecution (NIPs)?
And most importantly did they inform that Company of each of the NIPs within 14 days ? If they register the NIPs in (which they ought to) and they were delivered out of time to them then they might have to be dismissed on that basis, but be aware that 'forward' contact with you is allowed to take up to 6months.

At this point there is a speed camera sign (they no long have to have one) : here by the 'Furniture' place (prior to the Total fuel station)

Near 'York Road' opp CarCraft there is a perfect 'ambush location' where the orangey yellow people 'mini bus' sits ... not ideal but it gives you an idea how a van might be 'missed' when blending into the background.... here
The street lights are a giveaway too that it is likely to be a 30mph ... sorry.

I would certainly talk it over with a lawyer and see if they might help you construct a suitable letter making a request for leniency over the points at least. Plus get the hire company to either agree to waiver their strict guideline or / and get them to write a letter stating the fact that they will have no alternative but to stop you hiring out the vehicles! Certainly worth asking .... I can recommend that you ask on PePipoo forums if you haven't already... The other thing is that one of the points might be offered as a 'speed awareness course' - as much as I disagree with the whole system ... you get 1 opportunity in 3 yrs to take this option if offered.

I hope that helps a little ... :)

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