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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:53 
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Hi all - after 5 years I'm back again!

Got a NIP from a mobile unit - knew it was there, travelled past it doing 30mph inbetween two other vehicles, carried on...

About a week later got the letter from the "Safer roads team", so I can only imagine he got me just as I was accelerating for the national speed limit sign. I'm asking for photographic/video proof and calibration information, so will share when I get it...

My query is - is there a minimum/maximum distance from national speed limit signage that they will persue prosecution, or is it black and white and even if I was 1 meter from the sign I can be prosecuted?

Not the end of the world - I have a clean license, so could probably take awareness course, it's the principle :roll:

Thanks in advance.

Paul


Last edited by Beanie on Thu Nov 08, 2012 15:33, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:40 
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As far as I am aware it is, as you say, "black and white" however, I don't clearly understand the situation in which you were caught. You were in the 30mph limit in a stream of traffic when you passed the van. Presumably, the stream of cars all approached the NSL signs together slowly accellerating. How then, were you caught from behind if you were in a line of vehicles?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:47 
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Ah right, probably just have to grin and bear it then...

Your understanding is right - I was surprised too, as the vehicle behind was quite close to me. It must have got me a fair distance away as the road goes up a slight gradient. Probably easier to describe once I have the photographic evidence.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 15:08 
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AFAIK -lots of SCP will only release that sort of info if you opt for court & plead not guilty . No doubt someone will surface to tell you that it's national policy. In the meantime, don't say too much on here ,as he( and we all know who that is) will be watchig for evidence in case you plead NG and he's calld as an expert .

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 16:22 
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Apparently they don't provide calibration information on request as all equipment has self-diagnostic checks and certificates can be found here:
http://www.northants.police.uk/default.aspx?id=9780

Seems I "have" to admit guilt by filling in and returning the NIP form. So I can't see any evidence unless I plead not guilty - yet I don't know whether to plead not guilty unless I see the evidence they have against me? Sounds like chicken and egg situation...

After paying £770 for my last encounter of 40mph in a 30mph, I have no intention of doing the same again!
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16123

Paul


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 18:22 
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There is actually a documented example of the Talivan lurking in the :nsl: to catch vehicles still in the :30: but accelerating.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 18:35 
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Yes all in the name of "road safety", what an absolute joke.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 17:25 
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I have requested photographic evidence using this letter template...

Date

Address of Camera Office

Dear Sir/Madam

NOTICE OF INTENDED PROSECUTION NO : ********
With reference to the above notice number, I would be grateful if you could supply me with any photographic evidence of the alleged offence so that I may identify the driver.

On the day specified, there was more than one driver of the vehicle and unfortunately we are unable to come to any definitive conclusions as to who the driver was.

I look forward to receiving the photographs at your earliest convenience and should there be any problem with this I would appreciate your prompt response.

Yours


Already sent this from here:
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=841&st=120

So please don't pick fault with this :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 19:23 
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I suggest that you stop posting details of this matter on this public forum.

Your original post calls into question the claim made in your letter just above that you are unsure who was driving.

However, we would be interested in the general outcome of this matter.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 20:47 
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malcolmw wrote:
I suggest that you stop posting details of this matter on this public forum.

.

I did suggest he limit detail for a similar reason . He may well find that he is compromised as it will all be noted .

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:01 
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Thanks for the advice it was noted - I don't think I have given any more detail than my name may be "Paul", the offence occurred in Northamptonshire, and a template letter freely available from pepipoo.com - Northants Police deal with over 3,000 speeding offences a month, and probably more than one "Paul".

I'm elligible for the SAC so will probably take that to keep my license clean, once I've paid for my photo :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:16 
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PeterE wrote:
There is actually a documented example of the Talivan lurking in the :nsl: to catch vehicles still in the :30: but accelerating.


I've noticed from reports on other forums (like PH) that this is becoming increasingly common - a bit underhand but strictly speaking still "within the law"

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 14:50 
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prof beard wrote:
PeterE wrote:
There is actually a documented example of the Talivan lurking in the :nsl: to catch vehicles still in the :30: but accelerating.


I've noticed from reports on other forums (like PH) that this is becoming increasingly common - a bit underhand but strictly speaking still "within the law"

More of a "Nelsonlike" tactic ,me thinks. Like those locally, who try to shelter in the undergrowth .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:34 
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Got the images back from the Police - unfortunatly it is clearly me, in my car, not obscured, and still in the 30mph zone (taken all identifying marks out, as Northamptonshire Police own copyright to this image):
Image

Was going to take a photo of the location this morning, but too foggy. This is taken from Google Street View from the location of the camera van (so higher and during summer so more foliage) - the keen eyed amoungst you may be able to spot the hazard sign right at the top of the road:
Image

The approximate location of my car 142.5 meters away from camera van, showing the hazard sign (you can see the two poles in the Police photo above my car) and national speed limit signage:
Image

Looks like common sense won't prevail on this one, I'll just take the speed awareness course and learn how dangerous I was for doing 37mph before I got past signage! Safety camera's my arse...

Paul


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 18:13 
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Oh yes, obviously a VERY dangerous place to do 37MPH, as the car following you will also agree, no doubt.
I'm actually suprised it is a 30MPH limit there, it was probably a 70MPH a few decades ago and a 60MPH up until about 5 years ago , I would guess.

...still if we want safer roads this is the only way to go about it!...isn't it???

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 18:15 
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People who think this is an ideal place for a 30MPH limit and then set a speed trap for it, really do need to grow up and start living in the real world.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 21:42 
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graball wrote:
People who think this is an ideal place for a 30MPH limit and then set a speed trap for it, really do need to grow up and start living in the real world.

IMHO,resorting to this sort of cold war trickery shows up the desperation in the SCP ranks ( and boy are they rank). I'm surprised the one eyed monster from the deep hasn't surfaced to tell us we're all "DOOMED,AYE DOOMED", if we don't stop driving at an appropriate speed in places like this.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 01:39 
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Beanie wrote:
Thanks for the advice it was noted - I don't think I have given any more detail than my name may be "Paul", the offence occurred in Northamptonshire, and a template letter freely available from pepipoo.com - Northants Police deal with over 3,000 speeding offences a month, and probably more than one "Paul".

I'm elligible for the SAC so will probably take that to keep my license clean, once I've paid for my photo :wink:

Welcome Back Beanie ... sorry for my late showing on this one. :(

I am sorry that you lost your last case. (Photos that include a National Newspaper help to prove evidence of a date - for future reference).

If they offer you a course ... not all areas do, I understand why but do report back about it as I want to obtain much more info on the courses that are currently being taught.
The sad truth is that so many take the courses (understandably the better Hobsons' Choice), however it keeps the Camera Industry's pockets well lined, and prepared to fight the cases that do reach the Court! :(
But I understand your reluctance to take it to Court and seek proper justice.

They should only ever target a vehicle that has no others around it, and you state you are in a set of three, and although they have you in sight there is clearly a fairly close following vehicle which is not 'following the best practice guidelines' for camera targeting.

I have seen evidence in Court several times now of badly set up cameras alignments that give no time for proper procedures and are a sham on every ticket that follows.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 14:02 
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Quote:
They should only ever target a vehicle that has no others around it, and you state you are in a set of three, and although they have you in sight there is clearly a fairly close following vehicle which is not 'following the best practice guidelines' for camera targeting.


Obviously got a great zoom on those camera's - as the pictures state I was over 142 meters away when they were taken! Car behind was in shot, is it worth trying based on this? Does anyone have the best practice guidelines or know what distance cars should be before targeting, or have any test cases I could read to judge whether it is worth fighting?

Thanks in advance.

Paul


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