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 Post subject: only me...
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 18:13 
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Would appreciate some input via PM on the expected process having received an "application for name & address of driver" today.
Not a speeding offence btw.

Obviously I have 28days (from when?) to return it, and I will, I'm just curious as to how they prove the alleged offence (which i won't divulge here).

Ed


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 Post subject: Re: only me...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 01:28 
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They don't need to prove anything to send out a NIP although to be valid I believe there has to be an allegation of an offence.

Usually they try to avoid any need to prove anything by offering a fixed penalty in return for you admitting your guilt. If it's a tricky case and you opt for your day in court then you may never hear anything ever again.

The process is, you send in the completed NIP, naming yourself or who you believe to the best of your knowledge was in charge of the vehicle at the time. If you name yourself then you get a fixed penalty offer, or a summons. If you name someone else then they get a NIP and the process repeats.


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 Post subject: Re: only me...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 07:11 
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Homer wrote:
They don't need to prove anything to send out a NIP although to be valid I believe there has to be an allegation of an offence.


So is this a NIP ?
As there's no wording to that effect on the letter received, although there is an alleged offence.

Or will I then get a NIP once I declare myself as the driver ?


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 Post subject: Re: only me...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:16 
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Location: Somewhere between a rock and a hard place
I’m on tenterhooks myself. :roll:

Coming back from Devon recently I went over a red. There’s a big island at Newton Stewart with lights at every adjoining road. It was very early in the morning and I’d waited there for ages. I waited and waited, as the lights I could see for other junctions around the roundabout changed from red to green and back again. Mine, however, were seemingly stuck on red. :x

Now I don’t know if there are red speed cameras there but after several minutes, and me being the only thing within a mile radius at 4:30 a.m., I cautiously turned left over the red light to head back up north.

Not really sure what one could do in a situation like that or what you are supposed to do? It’s happened to me once before and no doubt the law wouldn’t be on your side. You doubtless just have to stay there forever and by doing what I did ‘I could have killed someone’. :headbash:

Good luck ed, whatever yours is.. :wink:

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You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


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 Post subject: Re: only me...
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 13:11 
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Any chance it is a spammer ???

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 Post subject: Re: only me...
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:06 
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ed_m wrote:
Homer wrote:
They don't need to prove anything to send out a NIP although to be valid I believe there has to be an allegation of an offence.


So is this a NIP ?
As there's no wording to that effect on the letter received, although there is an alleged offence.


Interesting. I should have paid more attention to the wording in your original post.

Quote:
Or will I then get a NIP once I declare myself as the driver ?


No. A NIP is the request for driver info. This sounds like it's something else.

So is this from council enforcement of a bus lane or box junction?

Private parking companies just send the bill to the owner as far as I'm aware.

Could be a scam.

The NIPs I have seen quite clearly say Notice of Intended Prosecution and mention section 172 of the road traffic act.


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 Post subject: Re: only me...
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 20:48 
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it refers to mentions s172.... and the relevant sections of RTA etc for the offence.... & is from the police, at least the address & details seem to check out as such.

the offence is not trivial !

still taking advice at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: only me...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 00:34 
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Nothing to stop you calling the Police station concerned and just checking that the reference numbers and their details are correct and validate the 'alleged offence' at least.

I would ask for all evidence video, photos etc. This can help you to try to identify any driver at the time, as well as verify all your car details and if they actually hold any evidence too, anyway.

No harm in asking.
Ask several solicitors to glean a general consensus of opinion/s. :LOL:

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 Post subject: Re: only me...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 07:55 
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thinking about it (on my cycle yesterday) i have access to a number of legal helpline services (through work, through home insurance maybe through car insurance which just changed)...... just a PITA to lose a load of time sorting everything out. :(


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 Post subject: Re: only me...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:15 
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...and this is the problem ... it is your time that you will never get back, as well as all the stress trying to sort it out. The AA and other organisations too will have advice too. Bank accounts too have these facilities, although sadly some have now gone over to call centre more simple 'help'.
Why someone sent this to you is interesting, what are they hoping to achieve and is this in the 'public interest' and if so how ?
The massive waste of individuals times on pointless cases is staggering. The stress caused alone must be costing the NHS a fortune. The economic costs too must be staggering.

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 Post subject: Re: only me...
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:38 
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ed_m wrote:
it refers to mentions s172.... and the relevant sections of RTA etc for the offence.... & is from the police, at least the address & details seem to check out as such.

the offence is not trivial !


For speeding, jumping red lights etc. the penalty for not returning the NIP is worse than the penalty for the offence in question. This is because (when the S172 penalty was less severe) people were taking the rap for S172 instead of the speeding. With no S172 they have no proof of who was driving (unless the defendant caves in court, which happened on occasion) so can't convict for the driving offence.

Bearing in mind I only got this from various places on the internet. I'd suggest some proper advice first.

As for your time, keep a log of all the time you spend, any phone calls, any postage. Put it in a claim for expenses if you win.


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 Post subject: Re: only me...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 13:35 
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I really need to apologise for going totally dark since this one.... it happened at a time where i was totally swamped by other stuff and not really pleased to be involuntarily loaded by something else!

So thanks to Clare & all who advised.

To sum up..... the s172 was for "failing to stop and exchange details" which is an offence in it's own right, assuming some incident has occured (causing personal injury or damage to another vehicle) to mean you should have stopped.

My concern (apart from the max sentence of £5000 fine & 6months in prison) was one of insurance fishing, since not being aware of any incident is a justifiable defence, if the outcome established that there was an incident it would seem to effectively leave me open to any claim from the incident.

Actually because of the way my brain works I recall an incident of avoiding some debris in L3 of the motorway, whilst also having someone uncomfortably close behind. I had no damage and not aware of any damage to other vehicles (and certainly wouldn't consider myself culpable in that respect!) so continued on. I did in fact stop at the next convenient point after i left the motorway to check my tyres & underbody for damage. (On receiving the s172 I actually noted down a quite detailed description of the incident from start to finish)

So after much thinking and hand wringing I returned the s172 declaring myself as the driver with a covering letter stating that i was not aware of any incident that could mean i should have stopped, and some other stuff (admitting as little as possible) meaning the onus was on them to come up with some evidence.

This was sent as signed for delivery arriving toward the end of the allowed response time on the thursday before i left the country for the best part of two weeks (of which i also informed them in the covering letter).

When I got home there was of course a letter waiting for me, which was dated with the same Thursday date! With the furstrating one liner "After carefuly consideration of the evidence we have decided not to pursue the matter further."

i.e. there is no evidence, or they actually bothered to look into it and found no fault. And either the dates were coincidental or it didn't take very long.

Thanks for nothing CMPG !


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