Safe Speed Forums

I have just received a notice from the police that I allegedly failed to stop after an accident on 12th October.

Although I know I was driving somewhere close to the supposed incident at the time I do not recall going that route (a route I rarely take), I'm not sure where I was at that exact time and I certainly did not know of any accident or even a near miss.

The form I have been sent is 963 and I have 28 days to return it.

Does returning the form admit being there at the time or is it simply submission of licence and insurance details? (which they are allowed to ask for at any time).

Should I not worry about anything for now until they possibly bring a prosecution against me? My insurance may well provide me with a certain amount of legal protection in fighting this.

Ouch!

Are you the registered keeper?

Does the 14 day NIP rule apply in a 'failing to stop' case? (Anyone?)

Since you cannot recall any incident, I think it's important that you inform the Police of the fact. Perhaps they can provide information to aid recollection, or to disprove your involvement. If the incident was supposed to have caused damage (ask them) then invite them along immediately to verify that you don't have the damage suggested.

If I recall correctly, not knowing that you were involved in an accident is a legal defence to a charge of failing to stop. It is far from uncommon for HGV drivers to be unaware of contact affecting the rear of a trailer.

And ask over at Pepipoo. http://www.pepipoo.com

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Thank you. I also know I wasn't at that point at exactly the time specified. I might not have passed that point at all that day as far as I'm aware, but if I did it was certainly earlier.

I am the registered keeper. It is an MPV so there is a chance I would not know of any accident if it involved the rear of the car, particularly as I also had a bicycle in the back of the car at the time (any kind of shifting noise I might have mistaken for the bicycle's movement).

I also went to a Sainsbury's in Beckton (it's on my credit card statement) though I'm not sure I went via Gallions Reach (I would normally have gone along the A13) but if I'd had an accident and failed to stop the other driver would most likely have followed me there.

I have inspected my vehicle for damage but see no more than some scratches, many of which have been there for a while, however lack of damage would obviously be no evidence because I could always have had them repaired.

My advice to you is dont just leave it and hope it will go away, it wont from what you say the police have obviously obtained your details from somewhere, that being the other party an independent witness or at the very least CCTV.
So contact the OIC whos details are on the form within the time specified and explain to him / her what you said, at some point he/she will want to I/V you over it. An NIP is not required in law it is force procedure this is to inform you that you have been involved in a incident and it stops you from using the defence of i didnt know,which you cant now as the form they sends does just this. I beleive the theory behind it is due to the fact that it should be obvious that you have been involved in a collision. prior to me joining the police I was a LGV driver for 12yrs and I would say that it is rubbish to say you didnt feel anything when you hit it, you do even the slightest touch of a kerb and the vehicle rocks etc, so driving a MPV is a lot lot smaller . So I am not saying I dont beleive you in what you say but be very careful at what you say to the officer if you try and lie and he knows it you will no doubt get a rough time but if you tell the truth then I am sure something can be worked out, but you will have to come up with a good excuse for failing to stop at scene this alone is a disqualification and if it is injury then you could be arrested, so good luck and keep us informed.
Stephen

This question arose on PePiPoo.com recently and we decided the text of the S172 notice is quite dangerous because it mentions a time/place and an alleged offence and then you sign to say "I was the driver at the time..." which is basically you admitting to being there, when in fact you are not sure whether you were or not. I think somebody pulled out some case law which decided that if a vehicle was not in the specified location then the driver did not have to be named, even if it was being driven elsewhere at the time.

As mentioned you should try and nail down where you were to the best of your knowledge and then write a letter saying as much as you know. If you travelled somewhere try and ask the people you saw if they can recall what time you arrived, it might be that they remember doing something which narrows down the times involved. If you are 100% certain that you do not recall anything that might have been related then say so.

Gareth

Stephen,
I must disagree with you about not knowing you've damaged something with a truck, especially an artic.

I was manoeuvring in a chemical plant with a 40-tonner, and had to do a tight U-turn. When I arrived at my destination, I discovered my rear bumper was at rght-angles to the tank chassis! It had hooked behind an armco barrier during my U-turn, and I never felt a thing.

And even when you do feel something, there's a very real risk that you may believe that you know what it was. One famous case involved the tragic death of a pedestrian caught under the rear wheels of a long trailer. The driver felt a bump but believed that the rear wheels had caught the curb. (I don't have a reference for this but read about it maybe five years ago.)

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I know exactly where I went.

I left the Canary Wharf area on my pushbike at about 2:15-2:30pm. Would have taken no more than 20 minutes to reach my car which was parked somewhere near Canning Town.

Then went to Sainsbury's, Beckton. Even if I did go via Gallions Reach (and I probably wouldn't have) then I would have passed that point way before 3:29pm (the alleged time).

Left Sainsbury's, Beckton, headed up the A406 and went to Halfords in Chingford.

I have a credit-card statement telling me what I spent where but doesn't specify a time. Is it possible to get an exact detail of the time and thus prove where I was?

I will go to pepipoo.

If it was an electronic transaction, almost certainly yes. Write with brief detail to the card company.

The register receipts (your copy or theirs) are also time stamped.

But who can say the register clock was right?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

it's unlikely that they're both going to be wrong and if they match roughly to Earl's timeframe then that can only be to his advantage, no?

Sure. An accumulation of evidence would be a good thing.

I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't worth checking.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Well I have found my credit card receipt from Halfords in Chingford, and the time is 15:35. So there is no way I could have been in Gallions Reach 6 minutes earlier.

I will still provide the police with my driving licence and insurance details, of course.

Oscar,
I too drive Artics and wagon and drags and beleive me you do feel something either a bump or resistance until it pulls free, I have been there on many an occassion and sometimes I have felt that I didnt want to know that I had hit something. Whats the first thing you do when you feel something unusual or sudden you look in your mirrors or should do.

To hit or catch an armco barrier on a U turn manoeuvre would undoubtedly cause a sneaky look in your mirror or even a good look around to see if anyone had seen or heard it.
Stephen

Without wanting to take this off topic.
I also drive artics for a living. I had a delivery in Birmingham, cardboard very light load, awkward so and so of a delivery point, have to park in the road to offload, so you pull in as close as you can to the parked cars.
When pulling away, I turned the wheel a bit too much and with the trailer tail cow catcher, I removed the bumper off a car.
Didn't feel a damn thing, what alerted me to the problem was the cars alarm went off and that is what made me look a little more closely, as I was bent to the right I wouldn't have seen anything at all.
If you are fully freighted to 44ton and you clip something with the tail of your trailer, it is 14 metres away on the other end of 30 tons of weight on three pairs of big lumps of rubber mounted on air, it is quite unlikely you will feel anything, however, you can have a 6th sense of when something is not right.

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Semper in excreta, nur quantitat variat.

Well as I said, assuming I would hit another car and I felt it I would pull over. If not, I would assume the other car to at least attempt to follow me and if I went into a supermarket car-park only a mile away it wouldn't be so hard for them to follow me there.

But at the time I was several miles away from the location.

So either they made a mistake about the time (their problem, if they weren't sure of the time they should give an approximate time) or it's a blatant lie and they picked up my reg number from the supermarket car-park and decided to try something on me. Either way, would a court believe their testimony given they have stated an obviously incorrect time? Assuming, that is, that the only evidence against me is a testimony.

did they say it was a car that was hit?

No details at all. Simply a place, date and time and "failure to stop and/or report to police".

Therefore so far all I can say is I wasn't there at that time.

Earl, if your reciept shows that you were several miles away from the location which you say is 6 minutes away - why could it be impossbile that you weren't there? Can you be exact as to how many miles you were from the scene and the time difference involved? If you can that would help.