Safe Speed Forums

Hi all,

I'd really appreciate any help with this one, I'm going out of my mind!

On the 1st Novenber I sold a car to guy and dropped the car off between 12-2pm. I've been sent a NIP stating that on this date at 12:52 the vehicle in question was caught by a mobile police officer doing 52mph in a 30.
The new keeper has also received an NIP as he was the new owner from the 1st. He is saying it wasn't him and I have said the same so now it's looking like it will go to court.

I cannot remember the exact time the car was dropped off and have contacted the office to ask for the photo but they can't tell from the photo who was driving the car so it's basically his word agianst mine.

I am really unsure if it was me and I don't want to admit to something I'm unsure of. He has alread been banned twice in the past for motor offences and I only passed my test in March this year and have 3 points for doing 86 on a motorway. If I am found guilty I will lose my license and have to re-take the theory and practical test. I'm also self employed and need the car for work so with no car I have no income

I have spoken to him today and he says the court are going to believe him and his dad (being the respected old one) and not me. I only have a friend as a witness who can verify I was with her at 1:30. The offence happened around the corner form his house and I think he took the car (Toyota Supra) for a spin.

So it's his word against mine. Surely if they don't have solid proof they can't point the finger at one of us. The car was sold on the 1st so technically it's his vehicle but I ALSO owned the car this day.

I know this is a triky one and wondered if any of you had heard of similar cases and the outcome?

Cheers! x

You have a statutory defence in RTOA 1988 S172 P4 which states: (paraphrased) "If you do not know who the driver was at the time of the alledged offence and cannot discover using reasonable diligence then you cannot be found guilty of failing to identify the driver."

In the circumstances described, I'm guessing that you would know very well if you had set off the camera, so you might think it wise to name the other guy - if that's what you believe.

It's definitely not worth lying to get out of a ticket - you might end up in clink for attempting to pervert the course of jutice.

As far as the law is concerned you are innocent, but it can be difficult to convince magistrates. Pop along to the forums at Pepioo for the best assistance available:

http://www.pepipoo.com

And good luck.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

reading your post couple of things spring to mind
was the offence commited on the route you took to drop the car off

you state your friend can verify you were with her at 1.30 did she pick you up / follow you to where you dropped the car off

52 in a 30, if i was operating i would try to get the best driver id possible, phone the SCP speak to the decision maker dealing

_________________
now retired

Moral of story - keep a record and get new owner to sign and date delivery with date and time if in this situation.



Ah! But I know what speed I'm doing at any one time and pretty darned sure I do not drive that fast in a 30 mph - even if "at work "- unless it really is life and death situation - and even then we know the speeds we do "in the course of the job and our patch does not test drive cars )

You saying you don't know what speed you may have driven at around here? (Being realistic as to questions you'll get in court not having "go" as such at you.

Though it does highlight the difference between speed camera system and the pull by police (and surprised if cop operated - no immediate pull over it as 52 mph in 30 mph is downright NONO dangerous!

If pulled - there's be no doubt of driver identitity, no dispute, - and rather think we'd be letting courts deal with this rather OTT offence anyway - even here in nice, civilised, refined , cultured and "quaintly eccentric" Durham





I am sure the courts will take this factor into account when deciding who is telling truth here - but if the photo cannot identify - both of you may be lucky - who knows? Am not clairvoyant!- and it's another shortchange of this daft "fine by camera" system.

Not passed test two minutes . .. 86 mph on motorway! OK - I'll be nice (it's late and I've been at choir all night) - bit unlucky!





You revert to provisional status. You can drive but need a qualified driver with you until you pass both parts of test again. If the worst does happen - put in for re-test asap and pester for cancellations on a daily basis. In meantime - get a qualified driver to sit with you as you go about your work and start planning for this now - just in case.



Chin up - be optimistic and think positive!- not necessarily - as dad is not exactly going to be objective. Courts do look at the wider picture. But you'd do best to look at pepipoo, check out the CAB/library/yellow pages for list of lawyers and get a solicitor to advise you on this - especially in the light of the "allegedly inconclusive photo evidence" and each party blaming the other.


Best of luck - let us know what happened. But you must surely know what speed you drove when you delivered the car and you must surely remember whether or not he took it for a spin on delivery.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
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Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Ah, but then one or other would get a speeding rap. With no such record.....

No it isn't.

It is up to the CPS to prove one of you was driving. It is not up to the person who you sold the car to.

If you stick to your guns and they stick to theirs then the CPS will have to provide proof of the driver.

Remember. Innocent until proven guilty.

Meanwhile. Visit Pepipoo. Just reading the site and the forum will give you a better undertsanding of the law.

Thankyou for all your replies

I have sent another NIP letter to them (apparently the first one has gone walkies) with a cover letter requesting photographic eveidence (thanks to the useful links and advice on this website )

Of course I have already telephoned and the identification of the driver cannot be named but I have reqauested info anyway as a procedure.

I hope this doesn't go to court and it is dropped, the stress i don't need. Anyway guys/gal's I'll keep you informed and wish to thankyou for your informative replies xxx

Even on a 30mph dual carriageway like the one near Handforth Dean in Cheshire on the A34 which is patrolled by 2 GATSOs hidden behind a bridge on a descent?

Agreed, the once sacred 30mph limit is now so devalued it hardly means anything by itself.