Safe Speed Forums

First of I know your all thinking that when I say "friend" I actually mean "myself" but honestly, it genuinely is my friend.

Well anyway the dreaded letter has arrived this morning..... 51 in a 30 and it was a Lancashire safety camera in a van. Now I know that sounds a bit much but I know the site in question, its about 300 yards on approach to a 40 zone that used to be NSL, and there are no houses or sideroads.

Its a company pool vehicle but was only 2 miles from his home address. I said it might not be wise to go down the "unsure of driver" route because don't you have to show in great detail why you don't know who was driving? Also what if he did that and failed, does the RK get done for that AND the speeding offence?

Any views on the best line of defence? Is this PACE thing any good? What about the accuracy of these camera-in-a-van thiings? Is there any milage down that road?

My friend has already got 3 points and is worried about the prospect of getting more, espcially since the magistrates guidelines are apparently 6 points or a 14-56 day ban for 51mph as it should be a summons for 50mph and above?

Is it worth a gamble of just filling it in and hoping for a FPN + 3 points? I realise PePiPoo are the experts but I believe they are quite busy so my plan is to seek advice on the best route, then research it using the existing topics.

*I politely request that any replies are kept on topic, I'm not interested in debating the right or wrongs of 51 in a 30 in this thread, if you wish to do so please start a thread in the relevent forum. Many thanks.

Send your friend to PePiPoo and look, as you have done, at the PACE witness statement.

It's not a guarantee, but it's his most viable option.

Claiming he doesn't know who was driving when he knows it was him is attempting to pervert the course of justice and can result in jail time. Does he really want to risk jail to save £60?

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Less Kodak, more Kojak.
In times of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

I'm unsure if it's ever been tested, but I though 172 only applied when the prospective punishment is minor, and that if the alleged crime is sufficiently heinous to attract a ban, that silence is a big right. Were it me, I think I'd consider not replying at all on that basis.

Thanks for the replies guys, I've managed to talk him out of saying he doesn't know what was driving and so I'm thinking PACE is probably the best shot. I'm going to try and do as much research as possible but I've asked him to do the same as I've said there is not guarentee of success.

Cheers.

*Update*

My firend has recenty been back to the site and tells me there is only one 30 limit sign on the right hand side of the road of the side road he pulled out of which is rather narrow, but does have two NSL signs the other way...... does that make the limit unenforceable? Neither of us of hand can remember whether there are street lights, its a semi-rural area so it could be either.

I've had a brief search for info on pepipoo no definative answers are popping up, probably need to try some better key words.

I'm not sure if it's any help but there is quite a lot of info on the ABD website here

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

to requires 2 terminal signs, so as long as the road he came out of was then your speed limit is not enforcable.

The ABD page explains it quite nicely. Yes it is complicated!

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Andrew.

Thanks for the replies.

Yes the road he was orignially on was and then he turned right onto the road. So it looks promising at least! I've read the ABD page and your right it is a wee bit complicated.

Does it not matter therefore whether or not the road has streetlights?

Thanks again.

Shouldn't do. If the signs are wrong then they are wrong.

If there is a system of street lighting within 50m of the sign/s then both signs must also be illuminated at night but that's about it, they still need two terminal signs.

This is in relation to double yellow lines with no end bar:

It may apply here too because even though one sign "is clearly recognisable to a reasonable man" as the start of a 30 limit, there is meant to be another one!

I'm no "legally" person though, this is just what I've read and learned from here and Pepipoo. It may even refer to the wrong section of the RTRA, which I haven't read!

I'm pretty sure there have been other people who have fought on the same grounds as your friend.

Oh look, the top one on here: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=2566

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Andrew.

Well it certainly looks promising then, I'll post over at Pepipoo and see what there take is on the situation.

Thanks again

If you read the ABD page carefully you will find that if turning on to a road with a lower limit from an NSL road, only one sign is required at the left-hand side of the carriageway.

Go to:

http://www.abd.org.uk/speed_limit_signs.htm#end

and scroll down a bit.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

According to my friend the only sign is on the right hand side when on approach to the t-junction, so hopefully that still makes it illegal?

I said I'd go with him tomorrow night to get a few snaps and have a look at the situation.

Cheers.

"your friend" needs to be a little lighter on the gas pedal, another nine points and hell need somthing with two pedals.

You could try and make friends with people that are a little less mindless thats the advice I would give my children if there friends were caught in some criminal dangerous behavior.

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Why not put on speed limiters we have the technology only idiots break the speed limit

I read the ABD page carefully and believe two signs are required (if I have understtod the facts correctly).

I'd concentrate on teaching my kids to spell.