Safe Speed Forums

Hi,

I drive a company car and my company recently receieved 2 NIP's for the car I usually drive;

NIP 1: Alledged offence 39mph (30 zone) on 13/07/2006
-The letter is dated 16/08/2006 (34 days = 20 days late)

NIP 2: Alledged offence 39mph (30 zone) on 20/07/2006
-The letter is dated 15/08/2006 (26 days - 12 days late)

My company handed me the NIPS on 09/09/2006 and I had to sign a form saying they had handed me the NIPS (however I notice on the NIPS it says they cannot and must not pass this document to the driver to complete!)

What should I do?

Send the forms in and do PACE? Also question the late NIP's or sit tight and do nothing?

Any help appreciated.

The 14 day requirement to notify the registered keeper has PROBABLY been observed correctly.

Sounds like your company hasn't replied to the nips and is in violation of S172. This would leave you in a winning position.

You may have the chance to rescue the company from their mistake, but if you hold the NIPs you have control. The 'rescue' would come if you or the company replied late to the NIPs, naming a driver. Generally speaking a camera partnership will accept a late reply becuse it's on the easy route to a fixed penalty payment.

It'd be more than interesting to turn up in court and claim that they couldn't nick you for speeding because the section 172 reply fell outside the legal requirement.

But I really think you need to get on over to Pepipoo, and ask the question there.

Do absolutely nothing until you have more replies and have fully considered your position.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

The 14 day requirement to notify the registered keeper has PROBABLY been observed correctly.

Would I have to contact the lease company my employers use to check this and are they likely to know, i.e keep records of when they where informed?

Sounds like your company hasn't replied to the nips and is in violation of S172. This would leave you in a winning position.

I do have the NIPS and haven't signed them yet, although I did sign some form they gave me to say they gave me the NIP's does this matter?

You may have the chance to rescue the company from their mistake, but if you hold the NIPs you have control. The 'rescue' would come if you or the company replied late to the NIPs, naming a driver. Generally speaking a camera partnership will accept a late reply becuse it's on the easy route to a fixed penalty payment.

So if I don't do anything at this point the company will be fined. Will I still be open to prosecution?

But I really think you need to get on over to Pepipoo, and ask the question there.

Went there. Which forum am I best posting on for this and do I have to sign up for a 3mth membership (£12) to be able to do this?

Do absolutely nothing until you have more replies and have fully considered your position.

Thanks for your help Paul!

Get over to pepipoo quickly. AFAICT, you could be getting yourself into doodoos if you don't reply to the NIP within 28 days of the date on the NIP.

Although the NIP states that the company should not pass it to the driver to complete I suspect that the company have passed it to you not as the driver, but as the representative of the company who had control over who would be driving the vehicle. It is likely that only you would know whether someone else had charge of the vehicle at the date and time of the alleged offence. Your signature for the NIP is their get-out if and when they have to nominate someone to carry the can if their obligations under S172 are not met.

_________________
Will

NOPE! The company cannot do that - the notice applies to ONLY the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. Unless our OP is director or co sec of the company he has no right to reply, let alone an obligation.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I'm not too sure either way (which is why I suggested pepipoo). This is a grey area and I feel the OP might "catch a cold" if he doesn nothing - hence the need to check before the 28 days are up.

S172(2) requires the "keeper" to identify the driver but RTA 1988 doesn't seem to define the term "keeper". AFAICT, where a vehicle is registered to a body incorporated, any person who is an authorised officer of that body may respond. If the company policies and procedures authorise the person having control of a company car to act on behalf of the company in such matters, the OP has the right to reply.

If the company's obligations under S172(2) are not met, and the company is prosecuted under that section, AIUI the company can show due diligence by showing that they passed the matter to the only person in the company who could provide the required information (i.e. the OP) and that person was obliged under company procedures to respond. Whether the OP could then be prosecuted, or whether the company could take action against him, is another matter.

Of course, just as the leasing company nominated the OP's employer, his company should have nominated the OP. Hopefully, the case will time out before the OP would get to court - but if it were me I'd like to be sure!

_________________
Will

Thanks for your help, okay I've been over to Pepipoo;

I've read up on the site, and from the replys I go there I've surmised the following ... Okay so if I ignore the two NIP's I have in my pocession the following would happen;

If no satisfactory response is received to the NIP/s.172, the person who it was addressed to (My employer who leased the vehicle off the leasing co.) would be liable to be summoned for failing to supply the driver's details. As my employer made me sign some form to say they passed me the NIP, does that show they have showed due dilligence in attempting to name the diver and so avoid prosecution?

I expect my employer will get the reminder letter soon (what happens if they don't get one?), when they do I'll give them the line about taking legal advice and it being unlawful for me to fill it in when it says not to in big bold letters on the NIP.

If they request the original NIP back, should I take a copy and give it them back, or hold onto it and say that I lost it or something?

My employer will be peeved, am I best to contact them now (the 28 days on the NIP are up anyway), and inform them I haven't filled in the form etc etc to take some of the heat away, or am I best to keep silent and not give them any warnings which may speed up the process?

Once they get the reminder, should I tell them to send it in with my details, or hope they pass that NIP to me too!? I don't expect they will though, so I figure I will be waiting for an NIP addressed to me at this point.

When I get my NIP, should I take the full 28 days to reply, and then send it in recorded delivery on the 27th day, or if you ignore it do you get a reminder?

Hopefully I will then receive a CoFP giving me 28 days to pay, taking me beyond the 6 month cut off. Proceedings for the summons cannot be started until the expiry of the 28 day period of the CoFP. Hopefully by all this it will be timed out.

What would happen to my employers though? Will they be prosecuted for not supplying details (especially if they don't receieve a reminder NIP).