Safe Speed Forums

weepej keeps saying that if one hits an unlit object in the road it is their own fault as they are going too fast, and so to my mind is excusing riding without lights, because if one were to hit an unlit cyclist it would be the fault of the person that hit them, not the person that was hit. If he said "if they get hit, tough, that's one for a Darwin Award, it would be clear that you dissapprove of cycling without lights.

Right now this instant, on page 169 of Ceefax on the London bit there is a report of a body that was run over on M25 in the afternoon. The last sentence says, and I quote "The motorists were unlikely to have realised what they hit, said police".

The chances of crashing and walking away unscathed are quite good, the car might be hurt, but half decent observation will remove much of the risk. Wearing a seat belt will remove a bit more risk. Having a properly adjusted head restraint will more a bit more. The crumple zones take out a bit more risk and when the air bags deploy, that will help too. A head injury will require a big structural bang to the car, like running into the back of an artic or tipping it over. I'm not big on driving in a way that puts me at that amount of risk. Sure, someone might hit me hard enough to bang my head, but I don't think that there is enough risk.

Now, bikes have only 2 wheels and left to their own devices can and do fall over. Slip on some leaves in the car, and probably not much happens. Slip on some leaves on my scooter or a push bike and it could slip from underneath you/me and there could be a nasty head/hard thing interface. I'm guessing you have not had a head injury that requires paramedics, ambulances, stitches, x-rays, hospital beds, mophine, factured vertibrea, 6 weeks off work?

And you think this is a good way of driving? Blind faith?

I dunno about you but when I drive on a unlit motorway on a pitch black night I slow down so I know what's in the road ahead of me before I hit it.

So if you hit an unlit sheep, or a broken down or ditched car who's at fault there?

Dad used to have a rather large insurance coverage in case one of the cows got out and caused an accident. You'll find that most animals prefer to walk on the verge, because the road hurts their feet. Besides, you'll see a sheeps eyes because they have reflect back at you.

Broken downs have reflectors on them and nice shiney bits that reflect my headlights back, they probably have their hazzards on too as would a ditched car, assuming by "ditched" you mean abandoned, not in a ditch, if it's in a ditch, I'll do me best not to join it

edited for stupid typo

Sheep like to lie down in the road during summer nights because the black tarmac retains heat. And sometimes they close their eyes.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Trust me, I've spent many years and miles travelling mid wales, all hours of day and night (used to work for parcelforce) and have never seen a live sheep lying in the road. I once saw the same sheep on the verge eating hedge for about two weeks daily but he was never in the road. I've gone round corners to find cows wandering the white line, several horses that had escaped but never a sleeping sheep in the road. I think you have been watching too much Wallace and Grommit.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

"I dunno about you but when I drive on a unlit motorway on a pitch black night I slow down so I know what's in the road ahead of me before I hit it."

So Weepej, what is your recommended speed for an unlit motorway at night?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Unlit motorway with nobody else around? No more than about 55-65, maybe less depending on how far you can see and just how dark it is. That's pushing it somewhat but you've got to be aware there are idiots out there that might rear end anybody going slower.

In that case , you need to put your bicycle lights on your car. If you can't see more than that far into the distance. I wouldn't worry about being rear ended if you have rear lights on your car....you do don't you?

And if that is the speed you travel so that you can see what you are about to hit, what speed would you travel to ensure that you DIDN'T hit something?

Have you had your eyes tested lately?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I wouldn't trust you as far as I could throw you.

When I lived outside Buxton sheep sleeping on the road were a common hazard at night in summer. Did your Welsh delivery round go on after sunset in summer or were you back home watching W&G by then.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Can you see that far into the distance on a dark night? Really?




Yup, better than 20/20 in both eyes. More than perfect vision the doc said.

Is there better than 20/20 and more than perfect?...in the weepej world of things maybe.

As i said, good headlights should give you approx 75 yards of visibility which isn't out of the range of good eyesight and within the stopping distance of motorway speeds so on a clear motorway it shouldnt be a problem to drive at 70 mph in good weather.

i do worry about your doctor though, because when my father enquired at his doctors about having his eyes tested, he referred him to an eye specialist saying that doctors don't do eye tests now...does your doctor have all that specialised equiptment that the specialists have?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

"When I lived outside Buxton sheep sleeping on the road were a common hazard at night in summer. Did your Welsh delivery round go on after sunset in summer or were you back home watching W&G by then."

As I said, I drove through the night some shifts and throughout the day on others for over 5 years and have never seen what you say but if you were to show me a photo I MAY believe you...maybe welsh sheep are more sensible. I have never seen any animal ASLEEP in the road. Were yours dead or just lying there waiting to test you out ...maybe they were drunks in sheepskin coats.......

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

How do you wake up a sleeping buxton sheep, shout "Mint Sauce" in his ear or call last orders at the local pub?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

it happened on Tuesday afternoon

We are on to sleeping sheep now Adam....

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Weepej has BETTER than 20/20 and BETTER than perfect vision and Whaley sees sleeping sheep in the road although he misses the obvious in certain threads so I have to question his eyesight too.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

..and graball is having to resort to ad hominem attacks to bolster his feeble arguments. But since it is Xmas I won't complain to the moderator.

I expect that Welsh Sheep have too much sense to be on the road unlit when Grabit is speeding around in his van,

And 20-20 vision is not "perfect vision". It is a nominal value for good eyesight representing a resolving power of 1 minute of arc. Better acuity than this is not uncommon, especially in young people. My eyesight is much worse than that but with glasses it is more than good enough to recognize an obnoxious and self opinionated tw@t

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Well, that just shows the standard of driving round here!?