Safe Speed Forums

Interpreting your post with Steve-like attention to detail. . If all the red light jumpers are there then it certainly a very small proportion of the several million cyclists in the country.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Yes, because they have no or little other choice. What you're suggesting, but I'm sure you'll correct me , is that all traffic should not go any faster than the slowest moving vehicle.

So when I'm huffing and puffing up a long hill in the PP or grannie is pootling along with her basket of shopping on the front, all other motorists have to accept the mile-long queue behind us at 3mph?

OR, I can do what I always do and stay closer to the curb. This allows what would have been frustrated drivers pass which is good for them and better for all our lungs. You see where I am coming from dude?

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

So, I suggest that some people here are arguing that others think cyclists should ride in the middle of the road all the time is the biggest straw man in history, get pulled up on it ("straw man of a straw man") and here we have big tone asserting that very thing.

Hmmm....

Is the silly cyclist site somewhere you go to get your fix of hatred for cyclists? I presume you go there to bolster your prejudices right?

It was a harmless question weep. DCB's post related to other vehicles which bog the rest down; fair and true enough - no argument there I hope.

IF PP is about cycling such that you are obstructing the free passage of other vehicles, (I'm still confused over this), then what is wrong with my assertion?

I wasn't trying a cheap shot; honestly. And for the millionth time, we are not all a bunch of cyclist haters!

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

So you think PP proponents are seriously suggesting that cyclists ride in the middle of the lane ALL THE TIME (I mean some hardcore ones might, but then you wouldn't take the attitude of a few as the attitude of everyone would you?).

No, you ride PP when you need to, and yes, sometimes that involves coming out in the middle of the lane to prevent overtakes in dangerous situations (i.e. pinch points or narrow lanes), or simply to ensure your presence is felt, or when there are no other road users around. Again, I point to a school of thought that says more girls than boys get killed on cycles because they are more likely to hide at the side of the road.




Another straw man, I've not suggested that; clearly some on here have major issues with cyclists though, certainly people that make broad brush assertions about the behaviour of all based on the behaviour of a few would appear to indicate they are looking for a reason to justify their underlying disapproval.

Thay all have the choice of cooperating in your overtaking manoeuvre - a choice which few, especially agricultural drivers, exercise . I am not suggesting that we always go at the speed of the slowest vehicle: I am saying that it is often the case that we are forced to do so. And if we wish to vent our spleen about it we should read it wider than just the cycling community



Yes but I don't think that you are entirely aware of where you are going I don not think that one should be expected to compromise one's personal safety in order to promote the faster flow of traffic. If staying close to the kerb means that you are inviting Byronic drivers to squeeze past you at speed with insufficient clearance then I hold to my view that you are badly positioned. It is safer to take a higher position which makes it quite plain that here is no chance of overtaking.

Of course, as soon as you feel it is safe one will do every thing possible to facilitate overtaking. Well not quite every thing because very often the obvious thing is to go onto an unoccupied pavement briefly. But the howls of outrage that would raise here are too much for me.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I’m glad you say riding in the middle “all the time” isn’t something you advocate but then doing it 99% isn’t all the time is it?

Now don’t be nasty to me but I think what you are doing is what you do on the matter of speeding, to which I have the same retort you always disapprove of. I think it comes down to circumstances. (Cries of "oh no!" "Not that again from him!")

On my way to work, if I get up to 18 or 25 mph I remain nearer the curb unless there are people and children on the pavement in which case I move out away from them, the PP, with my eyes firmly fixed on any suspect and erratic movement. Either that or if I want to stay nearer the curb to let traffic come past me, I slow right down just in case someone does step in front of me; made all the worse by trees which seem almost to have been planted deliberately to hide children

Okay so far?

Since I feel the motorists shouldn't be doing any more than that sort of speed under those particular conditions anyway, (no I don’t do just because the sign says I can), I think it is a good thing to use PP in that case but I’m still not sure you’re not putting yourself at risk from the motorists behind you AND I still don't get this advice which doesn't appear to give any consideration to circumstances or explanation as to why 18mph for instance? Where and how did they get that from and why no mention of circumstances? (Unless there is but I missed it?)

I very rarely see cyclists using the PP where I live but maybe it’s a West Midlands trait or something, or they are all dead.

Just trying to ease the tension I feel And talking common sense I feel...

Oh and btw, If the road is narrow and for a car to overtake me would be dangerous then yes, I would head him off at the pass so to speak.

FFS don't go there! One heated argument at a time if you don't mind.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

And again!


That's attitude is rich coming from you!
The underlying issue there is women CREEPING UP and parking themselves in blind-spots of left-turning HGV drivers at traffic lights (as well as HGV drivers not checking their "blind-spots").

This action is absolutely unrelated with what we have been talking about: (some) cyclists riding along hogging position in the middle of the carriageway, needlessly holding up traffic.
Do you understand the difference between acting as a rolling road block and passing stationary vehicles?


I think you're being very convenient (click) with the points you address, aren't you (click)!

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Applying DCB's interpretation of my 'attention to detail'; this could easily be a result of cyclists being rare, so few would indeed stop even if there was 100% compliance

Applying my usual level of scrutiny:
Peter, if you are saying only a very small portion of cyclists stop at red lights, then I have cause to disagree with you again. The videos that have been linked do show that stopped cyclists really aren't a rarity (but yes, many do jump). This is in keeping with my own experiences, by bike and car.

Is it possible that the recall availability fallacy (an example) has taken effect?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

And applying your methods, my dear Holmes, it might be that very few cyclists stop at a red traffic light because very few need to. It is recognized practice amongst cyclists to slow down when some distance away from a red traffic light so that they reach them as they change to green. (One would only do that if there was room for cars to pass yo in there lemming like rush to the red light).

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Oh I nearly forgot something which hasn't been mentioned yet and may well be the answer and way to go.

A friend at work bought a bike about two years ago which was expensive, (a 'White' I think it was called and whoever they are), and because he both values his life and his bike he fitted one of those lolly pop looking things which stick out from the side.

The result, I'll have to paraphrase, "you lose street cred but they don't half work". I remember him telling me that he stays at the side but motorists tend not to know what to make of them so they either pass wide or don't overtake. Sounds like a win-win situation to me and I was going to fit one to mine this year and see for myself.

I suppose the superfast cycle riders would hate them because they look dorky and provide more wind resistance. (Yes, we all know the type* ). Personally, I rather be safer and so would have no objection to using one in the city which is where I have the vast majority of my problems with traffic.

*Me and my cycle friend were shouted at by a gang of weekend cyclists as we were heading towards our favourite Clent Hills on our mountain bikes. "You're slowing down the peloton!!!", at the top of his voice. Okay, he didn't swear at us but with that and the disapproving looks as they overtook us that was another day which wasn't nice for us.

I’ve always thought there’s a bit of ‘us’ and ‘them’ when it comes to cycling, racing bikes verses mountain bikes, where they look down on me as some sort of pretend cyclist just because I have a mountain bike. They wouldn’t know I’ve done a round trip of about 200+ miles in a day from Birmingham to Oxford and back on that mountain bike with road tyres.

If someone told me this was going to pass 10 pages I wouldn’t have believed them, and we haven’t properly started on the thread title yet..

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

As this depends on personal observation there is no way it is verifiable without carrying out a controlled experiment of sitting by a set of traffic signals for a period of time and noting how many cyclists go through the lights and how many stop.

Incidentally, I have just been out in the car around the local area and did not spot a single cyclist, possibly because it is Sunday and pouring with rain.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

This is quite correct, in itself. However, in essence it is quite possibly only relevant to my first point (cyclists being rare - in this context meaning being rare at traffic lights), in which case it would seem that you have addressed what you have taken issue with.

My actual method was to get to the necessary detail: determining if Peter's claim means 'a very small portion of the cyclists who arrived at red lights had stopped for them'.
Anyway, enough banter...

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Absolute nonsense.

Do you mean to sound so condescending and petty towards cyclists, or is it just by accident?

Big Tone in some cyclists are as arsey as arsey car drivers shocka!

Nothing wrong with balance and perspective. We hear of road rage between things with a mechanical engine and AFAIK it's the first time something like I have said has ever been mentioned.

Do you mean to sound so condesending and petty towards me in my post above, or is it just by accident?

I can think of a nicer more polite way to have put it without flicking my testicle

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

My, we are touchy today

Would you like to advance some alternative reasons for the absence of cyclists, then?

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

They do restrict your ability to dodge through small gaps though.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown