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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 22:02 
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I saw a poll on the Daily Echo website today:

Quote:
are some roads unsuitable for cyclists?



At the time of voting, 69.5% of voters said "yes", and 30.5% said "no".

That suggests that there are many people out there who think it would be perfectly acceptable to cycle on roads like the M25, if it weren't for the fact that cyclists are banned from motorways.

No wonder there are road accidents, when some people can't see that it is not sensible to cycle on certain roads. Some cyclists out there are arrogant sh*tes who think they own the road and that motorists are scum. I'll ruffle feathers with that comment, but it's true. I'm a cyclist, and I don't want to become tarnished with the same reputation that other cyclists might inflict on me with their lack of road safety awareness, whether cycle helmets, lights, visibility of clothing, running red lights or cycling where inappropriate. I also realise that some cycle routes and lanes out there are crap, but equally, there are good ones too, and I believe more are good than bad, and use them whenever possible.

In Southampton a few months ago a cyclist was knocked down and killed cycling along a road in Southampton. It was not any ordinary road either. It is the busiest and most important road in the city, the only one not covered by lorry restrictions, one that handles high volumes of HGVs going to the container terminals, city centre and Isle of Wight, and is a three lane dual carriageway with a 50mph speed limit, although where the accident happened it was just into where a 40mph limit started. The accident happened in the morning rush hour too. All in all, the cyclist couldn't have chosen a worse time and location in the city, really. But if that's not upsetting enough, this whole road has a parallel off-road cycleway, partially formed of a wide shared use footway/cycleway, and part formed of a quiet parallel road. The cyclist chose not to use the cycle route provided for him, and instead chose to ride along a very busy road at the busiest time of day, and was tragically killed.

It is very sad that some cyclists can't identify where they shouldn't be cycling. It is even more sad that some think it is wrong to ban cyclists from riding in such places. I think a campaign is needed to educate cyclists about the dangers of cycling on certain routes, and that there should be cycle bans on these certain routes, provided an off-road cycle route has been provided, as with this road into Southampton.

Going off topic a bit, it is so bloody typical of Southampton City Council saying that cycle bans should be the last resort; they don't have a clue how to manage anything effectively. I should know, I see the negligence and inefficiency every day. It's all very well encouraging people to use dedicated cycle routes, but equally, you need a certain amount of discouragement from cycling where it's not safe. In geography, the two are called push and pull factors. Think of it like supermarket shopping bags: it's good for the environment to reuse carrier bags or get a 'bag for life', but there isn't anything stopping people from continuing to use disposable plastic carrier bags every time they visit the shops, and as a result, many people continue to be less environmentally and choose the latter option. Although, we're comparing the environment with safety here.

I really do hope more cycle bans are imposed on roads where you shouldn't really cycle, because it's obvious that many people can't be trusted with their judgement of what they think is safe and perfectly reasonable.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 23:52 
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Since motorways are direct routes with lesser gradients, I can see why cyclists might like to make use of them.

Perhaps if a fenced off cycle path were added to one side of motorways, they would become well used main routes for those who like to tour!
I dont suppose it would add much to the cost, the only difficulty I can forsee is the junctions, where the cyclists would have to route around the slip roads :oops:
At least they would'nt be running red lights on motorways! :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 07:51 
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Bans aren't the answer. Haven't we learned that much?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 08:40 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
Bans aren't the answer. Haven't we learned that much?


aha yes.. i see where you're going here !!!!

CAMERAS !!!

:D

as to arrogant sh*tes .... can the same not be said for all road users ?
if so how does this make cyclists any worse than the rest?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:29 
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ed_m wrote:
SafeSpeed wrote:
Bans aren't the answer. Haven't we learned that much?


aha yes.. i see where you're going here !!!!

CAMERAS !!!

:D

as to arrogant sh*tes .... can the same not be said for all road users ?
if so how does this make cyclists any worse than the rest?


Answer = Bikeability Training and incentive to continue developing skills for all road users. :wink:

Bike Week (this week) - lots of tips. Go ride out to one :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 19:59 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
Bans aren't the answer. Haven't we learned that much?


So if there weren't a drink drive limit banning people from driving with over a certain amount of alcohol in their systems?

Yes, it needs enforcement, but still, without such legislation the drink drive problem would be far more serious than it is now.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 20:57 
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sotonsteve wrote:
Yes, it needs enforcement, but still, without such legislation the drink drive problem would be far more serious than it is now.


there is enforcement, try cycling down a motorway and see how long before you get a trafpol out (or perhaps a HATO if you're unlucky).

i suspect in the original survey people were discounting motorways as you cant cycle on them even if you wanted.

isn't this whole concept a bit more nanny state anyway?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 13:21 
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ed_m wrote:
isn't this whole concept a bit more nanny state anyway?


I hate the nanny state, and I'm also a cyclist. I wouldn't have suggested cycle bans on certain roads without reasons.

Sometimes you just need to ban people from doing things. Some people trumpet their rights, and do things that are perfectly legal but damn right stupid and dangerous.

Nanny state... grrrrrr. If they had their way everybody would be dead, because living would be too dangerous.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 14:02 
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ok then.. how do you signify a road is not legal to cycle on?

currently if it starts with an M it's pretty easy, if some A roads get bans and others don't how are you ever going to be able to plan a ride in an unfamiliar area ?

what obligation for parallel cycle routes on banned roads ? how much distance will these add ? how will they be maintained ? (since clearly it's beyond most councils to maintain the current poor rash of cycle lanes)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 21:08 
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On parallel non-motorway roads, there is a 'B' road parallel to the M74 for absolutely miles and miles, completely empty of traffic. In the main, it consists of one lane of the old A74 (an early dual carriageway), the other lane having been ripped up when the M74 was built. Clearly it is necessary as there used to only be the A74, there are no other roads and there are obviously tractors, learners, cyclists and others to be accommodated.

By the way, this road is a joy to drive along, but I saw no cyclists on its whole length.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 21:40 
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ed_m wrote:
ok then.. how do you signify a road is not legal to cycle on?

currently if it starts with an M it's pretty easy, if some A roads get bans and others don't how are you ever going to be able to plan a ride in an unfamiliar area ?

what obligation for parallel cycle routes on banned roads ? how much distance will these add ? how will they be maintained ? (since clearly it's beyond most councils to maintain the current poor rash of cycle lanes)

Signs.

Look. No real issues around here apart from obviously suicidal lane :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 17:53 
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Personally I'd never cycle down a dual carriageway with fast moving traffic (motorway speeds) on it. You'd have to be mad.

Besides which, its very boring.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 13:24 
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The article is GCSE journalism.

Southampton council have the right idea.

I don't want the general public to decide where is and is not safe to cycle. Especially given tha the average person cycles 43 miles per year. I would rather do so on the strength of my own judgement and hard won experience.

Dual carriageways tend to be long straight roads with good visibility, slight gradients, ample room for overtaking. The only thing that can be dangerous about them is negotiating slip roads, but it can be done, safely.

The article makes out it's the cyclists fault for cycling on a "dangerous" road. It's despicable given that no detail is given about the actual cause of the accident.

The statistics are taken out of context (more pedestrians are killed each year ON pavements) and the message behind the world naked bike ride is distorted.

The article just miss-represents, maligns and provokes.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 14:07 
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don't you already have a username on here edd?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 14:22 
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>> don't you already have a username on here edd?

Yup but I couldn't log in. I figured I'd forgotten the password or the account had been deleted for being inactive for so long.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 15:29 
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edd_o_brain wrote:
>> don't you already have a username on here edd?

Yup but I couldn't log in. I figured I'd forgotten the password or the account had been deleted for being inactive for so long.


fair enough, welcome back.


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 Post subject: Banning drivers?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 19:24 
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Now what would happened if we banned drivers from dangerous roads?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 23:58 
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sotonsteve wrote:
Some cyclists out there are arrogant sh*tes who think they own the road and that motorists are scum.


Some motorists out there are arrogant sh*tes who think they own the road and that cyclists are scum.


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 Post subject: Re: Banning drivers?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 00:00 
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crw wrote:
Now what would happened if we banned drivers from dangerous roads?

Maybe you should consider the economic effect of banning cyclists from the roads versus the effect of banning motor vehicles from the roads.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 00:38 
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weepej wrote:
sotonsteve wrote:
Some cyclists out there are arrogant sh*tes who think they own the road and that motorists are scum.


Some motorists out there are arrogant sh*tes who think they own the road and that cyclists are scum.



Yet... this same type ride their bikes and motorbikes in the smae chav-loutish way as they do drive their chavmobiles :popcorn:


One of our lads pulled a cyclist for pavement riding and being a nuisance to the neighbours. Oddly enough .. we do try to turn up when someone calls us and we do look down the alleys where they run to hide .. (another story - but one WPC found one hiding in a a wheely bin... :rotfl: It posed a bit of a dilemma as the officers felt he belonged there :boxedin:)

Anyway..he issued a fine. Two days later ... he's on a routine. Spots a car behaving in a way which aroused hackles .. and sure enough.. :yesyes: yep :banghead: .. the very same yoof .. who came out with the imortal :nono: line of "why don't he F..... :censored: and other choice words go arrest a real criminal..." :rotfl: If I got a pound coin for each occasion over the years... :hehe: I'd be able to retire with a fleet of Veyrons :lol:


:rotfl: Our standard response is to smile politely and calmly inform the "gent/lady/whatever :wink:" that we just have :lol:. (They really hate the "Sir/Madam" though :lol:)



But seriously.. there are roads I would not consider cycling on. (A1... parts of the A19 :yikes: - and others from my travels to visit the riff/raff and hols :wink:)

Some of the motorways would take me the long way round too.

If there is a decent facility - I do use it if it's safe and obviously clear of debris. We're not too bad here... especially our "Beacon flag ship town of Darlington. :wink:

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